[restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

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[restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

fantasai
Hi everyone,
We're looking into redesigning the W3C spec templates and style sheets
to reduce boilerplate content and improve usability and readability.
To help guide this project, we wanted to collect some information from
all the W3C WGs!

So please forward this to your WGs; answers are welcome from WGs as a
whole and/or individual members, or some combination thereof, however
your group prefers to answer. Send them to [hidden email] [public].

   1. Give me 3-5 adjectives for how the visual design of
      a W3C spec should "feel".

   2. List the URLs to 3 specs that are representative of
      your WG's output (especially wrt markup and structure
      of the content).

   3. Do you have any documentation of your markup conventions?
      Please paste URLs:

   4. What spec processing tools does your WG actively use?

   5. What are your goals for the redesign?

   6. Is there anything else we should know / consider?


Note: This project is going to be a consensus-driven experiment, so
feedback will be welcome throughout. However, it is also a spare-time
project, so progress might be a bit slow and sporadic. :)

More information at https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle

Thanks~
~fantasai

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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

Daniel Glazman
On 11/10/2014 07:07, fantasai wrote:

>    1. Give me 3-5 adjectives for how the visual design of
>       a W3C spec should "feel".

   1. readable
   2. fluid
   3. responsive
   4. printable
   5. modern (see below)

>    6. Is there anything else we should know / consider?

See WikiWand for Wikipedia. It adds a lot of things to
Wikipedia web pages like popup visibility of reference links,
superb access to the table of contents. I think it is highly
time to take advantage of JS inside our specs, through something
trivial to add like a one-liner script element.

http://www.wikiwand.com/

</Daniel>


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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

Steve Faulkner-2
In reply to this post by fantasai
Hi,
can we ensure that the redesign takes into account usability and accessibility. I am more than happy to provide feedback on the acc part as an when needed.

--

Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1

On 11 October 2014 06:07, fantasai <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
We're looking into redesigning the W3C spec templates and style sheets
to reduce boilerplate content and improve usability and readability.
To help guide this project, we wanted to collect some information from
all the W3C WGs!

So please forward this to your WGs; answers are welcome from WGs as a
whole and/or individual members, or some combination thereof, however
your group prefers to answer. Send them to [hidden email] [public].

  1. Give me 3-5 adjectives for how the visual design of
     a W3C spec should "feel".

  2. List the URLs to 3 specs that are representative of
     your WG's output (especially wrt markup and structure
     of the content).

  3. Do you have any documentation of your markup conventions?
     Please paste URLs:

  4. What spec processing tools does your WG actively use?

  5. What are your goals for the redesign?

  6. Is there anything else we should know / consider?


Note: This project is going to be a consensus-driven experiment, so
feedback will be welcome throughout. However, it is also a spare-time
project, so progress might be a bit slow and sporadic. :)

More information at https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle

Thanks~
~fantasai


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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

fantasai
On 10/11/2014 04:15 AM, Steve Faulkner wrote:
> Hi,
> can we ensure that the redesign takes into account usability and accessibility.
> I am more than happy to provide feedback on the acc part as an when needed.

Absolutely, it is one of the design principles that will go in.
Will definitely take advantage of your offer for feedback. :)

~fantasai

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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

James Craig-4
Great. Please take advantage of the accessibility work that Shane and others have put into ReSpec. Here are a few CSS gotchas that would be difficult to work around.

1. Please make sure everything works with full keyboard access and visible (prefab lay native) focus styles.
2. Please use native HTML widgets and controls. E.g. <details> is fine with a polyfill, but a custom collapse widget would not be.
3. Please use native scrolling for everything, too. E.g. Overflow: auto is fine; just don’t try to fake a native scroll view with position offset transforms.

Also, please avoid relying on some of the newer aspects of CSS that don’t have great accessibility support yet, like navindex, flexbox, and nth-fragment.

Cheers,
James Craig


> On Oct 11, 2014, at 11:08 AM, fantasai <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 10/11/2014 04:15 AM, Steve Faulkner wrote:
>> Hi,
>> can we ensure that the redesign takes into account usability and accessibility.
>> I am more than happy to provide feedback on the acc part as an when needed.
>
> Absolutely, it is one of the design principles that will go in.
> Will definitely take advantage of your offer for feedback. :)
>
> ~fantasai
>

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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

Joshue O Connor
In reply to this post by fantasai
> Hi everyone,
> We're looking into redesigning the W3C spec templates and style sheets
> to reduce boilerplate content and improve usability and readability.
> To help guide this project, we wanted to collect some information from
> all the W3C WGs!

Great, in WCAG we are also looking at doing some work along these lines
as a part of an separate project. I'll discuss any potential overlap
with our staff contact at the next editors meeting and we'll work out a
way of dovetailing the two initiatives.

Thanks

Josh

> So please forward this to your WGs; answers are welcome from WGs as a
> whole and/or individual members, or some combination thereof, however
> your group prefers to answer. Send them to [hidden email] [public].
>
> 1. Give me 3-5 adjectives for how the visual design of
> a W3C spec should "feel".
>
> 2. List the URLs to 3 specs that are representative of
> your WG's output (especially wrt markup and structure
> of the content).
>
> 3. Do you have any documentation of your markup conventions?
> Please paste URLs:
>
> 4. What spec processing tools does your WG actively use?
>
> 5. What are your goals for the redesign?
>
> 6. Is there anything else we should know / consider?
>
>
> Note: This project is going to be a consensus-driven experiment, so
> feedback will be welcome throughout. However, it is also a spare-time
> project, so progress might be a bit slow and sporadic. :)
>
> More information at https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle
>
> Thanks~
> ~fantasai
>
>


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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

Joshue O Connor
In reply to this post by James Craig-4
James Craig wrote:
> Great. Please take advantage of the accessibility work that Shane and others have put into ReSpec. Here are a few CSS gotchas that would be difficult to work around.
>
> 1. Please make sure everything works with full keyboard access and visible (prefab lay native) focus styles.
> 2. Please use native HTML widgets and controls. E.g.<details>  is fine with a polyfill, but a custom collapse widget would not be.
> 3. Please use native scrolling for everything, too. E.g. Overflow: auto is fine; just don’t try to fake a native scroll view with position offset transforms.
>
> Also, please avoid relying on some of the newer aspects of CSS that don’t have great accessibility support yet, like navindex, flexbox, and nth-fragment.

+1. While we should take advantage of newer markup patterns and
development methods, solid legacy user agent support is important for
core spec 'features'.

It's great that Steve is also volunteering to help with the a11y work.
I'd be happy to troubleshoot stuff if you need a hand also.

Thanks

Josh

> Cheers,
> James Craig
>
>
>> On Oct 11, 2014, at 11:08 AM, fantasai<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/11/2014 04:15 AM, Steve Faulkner wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> can we ensure that the redesign takes into account usability and accessibility.
>>> I am more than happy to provide feedback on the acc part as an when needed.
>> Absolutely, it is one of the design principles that will go in.
>> Will definitely take advantage of your offer for feedback. :)
>>
>> ~fantasai
>>
>
>



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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

Silvia Pfeiffer
In reply to this post by fantasai
Please make sure that whatever you come up with is included into
respec and specref - in fact, I'd highly recommend working with the
authors of those to adapt styles.

Silvia.

On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 4:07 PM, fantasai <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> We're looking into redesigning the W3C spec templates and style sheets
> to reduce boilerplate content and improve usability and readability.
> To help guide this project, we wanted to collect some information from
> all the W3C WGs!
>
> So please forward this to your WGs; answers are welcome from WGs as a
> whole and/or individual members, or some combination thereof, however
> your group prefers to answer. Send them to [hidden email] [public].
>
>   1. Give me 3-5 adjectives for how the visual design of
>      a W3C spec should "feel".
>
>   2. List the URLs to 3 specs that are representative of
>      your WG's output (especially wrt markup and structure
>      of the content).
>
>   3. Do you have any documentation of your markup conventions?
>      Please paste URLs:
>
>   4. What spec processing tools does your WG actively use?
>
>   5. What are your goals for the redesign?
>
>   6. Is there anything else we should know / consider?
>
>
> Note: This project is going to be a consensus-driven experiment, so
> feedback will be welcome throughout. However, it is also a spare-time
> project, so progress might be a bit slow and sporadic. :)
>
> More information at https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle
>
> Thanks~
> ~fantasai
>

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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

Shane McCarron

As a member of the respec team I just want everyone to know we are completely open to adapting the platform to the needs of the community. The tail that is respec should not wag the dog.

On Oct 11, 2014 4:03 PM, "Silvia Pfeiffer" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Please make sure that whatever you come up with is included into
respec and specref - in fact, I'd highly recommend working with the
authors of those to adapt styles.

Silvia.

On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 4:07 PM, fantasai <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> We're looking into redesigning the W3C spec templates and style sheets
> to reduce boilerplate content and improve usability and readability.
> To help guide this project, we wanted to collect some information from
> all the W3C WGs!
>
> So please forward this to your WGs; answers are welcome from WGs as a
> whole and/or individual members, or some combination thereof, however
> your group prefers to answer. Send them to [hidden email] [public].
>
>   1. Give me 3-5 adjectives for how the visual design of
>      a W3C spec should "feel".
>
>   2. List the URLs to 3 specs that are representative of
>      your WG's output (especially wrt markup and structure
>      of the content).
>
>   3. Do you have any documentation of your markup conventions?
>      Please paste URLs:
>
>   4. What spec processing tools does your WG actively use?
>
>   5. What are your goals for the redesign?
>
>   6. Is there anything else we should know / consider?
>
>
> Note: This project is going to be a consensus-driven experiment, so
> feedback will be welcome throughout. However, it is also a spare-time
> project, so progress might be a bit slow and sporadic. :)
>
> More information at https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle
>
> Thanks~
> ~fantasai
>

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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

fantasai
On 10/11/2014 10:09 PM, Shane McCarron wrote:
> Silvia Pfeiffer wrote:
>>     Please make sure that whatever you come up with is included into
>>     respec and specref - in fact, I'd highly recommend working with the
>>     authors of those to adapt styles.
>
> As a member of the respec team I just want everyone to know we are
> completely open to adapting the platform to the needs of the community.
> The tail that is respec should not wag the dog.

Of course. That's why I'm asking all the WGs to report on what tools
they use, so we can make sure they're all updated before we go live.

I'm also planning to work with ReSpec and Bikeshed (at least) to
beta-test the updated templates on editors' drafts before we finalize
anything for /TR/.

~fantasai



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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

Tobie Langel-3
In reply to this post by Daniel Glazman
On Oct 11, 2014, at 9:24, Daniel Glazman
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>>   6. Is there anything else we should know / consider?
>
> See WikiWand for Wikipedia. It adds a lot of things to
> Wikipedia web pages like popup visibility of reference links,
> superb access to the table of contents. I think it is highly
> time to take advantage of JS inside our specs, through something
> trivial to add like a one-liner script element.

I concur. It would be nice if the new design was able to accommodate
extra information such as implementation status, test results, etc.
through JavaScript plugins.

--tobie

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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

nigelmegitt
In reply to this post by fantasai
Should this include wiki pages? Our (i.e. the W3C TTWG's) TTML spec
references a more dynamically updatable registry of attribute values at
[1], so to that extent the output generated from MediaWiki can be
considered publicly viewable and at least an adjunct to, if not a
normative part of, our specifications. Therefore IMHO the styling of W3C
wiki pages is somewhat relevant to this redesign work.

Assuming that wikis are not off-topic, timeless pointed out recently that
the wiki-generated output, e.g. the table at [2] can be less accessible
(and has poorer visual styling) than the table in 2.2 Milestones of [3],
especially on mobile devices. Those two tables look like they should be
representing similar information. The wiki table is generated using
standard wiki markup, but the HTML/CSS it produces a) doesn't share a
visual language with other W3C group output - heading fonts and the W3C
logo are similar, is all - and b) doesn't seem to be as universally
accessible.

[1] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/RoleRegistry
[2] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/Publications
[3] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/timed-text-charter.html

NB in this particular case [1] doesn't happen to use a table, which is why
I've made the comparison between [2] and [3] that are about our charter
and deliverables, but the principle remains.

So in conclusion, I'd advocate:

1. improving the styling of our MediaWiki-generated output to share some
of the visual language and minimum accessibility standards that our specs
and charter documentation use, though being distinct enough so that it
doesn't appear quite as normative.
2. Including charter documentation within scope of the spec templates
being redesigned.

Apologies if that looks like scope-creep for the project,

Nigel



On 11/10/2014 06:07, "fantasai" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hi everyone,
>We're looking into redesigning the W3C spec templates and style sheets
>to reduce boilerplate content and improve usability and readability.
>To help guide this project, we wanted to collect some information from
>all the W3C WGs!
>
>So please forward this to your WGs; answers are welcome from WGs as a
>whole and/or individual members, or some combination thereof, however
>your group prefers to answer. Send them to [hidden email] [public].
>
>   1. Give me 3-5 adjectives for how the visual design of
>      a W3C spec should "feel".
>
>   2. List the URLs to 3 specs that are representative of
>      your WG's output (especially wrt markup and structure
>      of the content).
>
>   3. Do you have any documentation of your markup conventions?
>      Please paste URLs:
>
>   4. What spec processing tools does your WG actively use?
>
>   5. What are your goals for the redesign?
>
>   6. Is there anything else we should know / consider?
>
>
>Note: This project is going to be a consensus-driven experiment, so
>feedback will be welcome throughout. However, it is also a spare-time
>project, so progress might be a bit slow and sporadic. :)
>
>More information at https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle
>
>Thanks~
>~fantasai
>

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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

David Singer
In reply to this post by fantasai
I think my top request would be to make on-line reading the norm and a printed version works/exists, but is secondary.  At the moment, I would say we’re styled more for printing than online reading.

For a spec. of any size, I think we could do much better at providing (automatically) navigation help etc.  Perhaps that includes the multi-page/one-page choices.  For me it also includes (a) knowing where anchors are, so I can point at them from the outside (if they are not part of the index, it’s not evident they are there).

Something that is probably more than ReSpec and is surely more than styling would be to make it much easier to know where concepts are used — ‘backlinks’ (this anchor is referred to from X, Y, Z), and so on.  


On Oct 10, 2014, at 22:07 , fantasai <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> We're looking into redesigning the W3C spec templates and style sheets
> to reduce boilerplate content and improve usability and readability.
> To help guide this project, we wanted to collect some information from
> all the W3C WGs!
>
> So please forward this to your WGs; answers are welcome from WGs as a
> whole and/or individual members, or some combination thereof, however
> your group prefers to answer. Send them to [hidden email] [public].
>
>  1. Give me 3-5 adjectives for how the visual design of
>     a W3C spec should "feel".
>
>  2. List the URLs to 3 specs that are representative of
>     your WG's output (especially wrt markup and structure
>     of the content).
>
>  3. Do you have any documentation of your markup conventions?
>     Please paste URLs:
>
>  4. What spec processing tools does your WG actively use?
>
>  5. What are your goals for the redesign?
>
>  6. Is there anything else we should know / consider?
>
>
> Note: This project is going to be a consensus-driven experiment, so
> feedback will be welcome throughout. However, it is also a spare-time
> project, so progress might be a bit slow and sporadic. :)
>
> More information at https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle
>
> Thanks~
> ~fantasai
>

David Singer
Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.


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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

Shane McCarron

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 12:53 PM, David Singer <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think my top request would be to make on-line reading the norm and a printed version works/exists, but is secondary.  At the moment, I would say we’re styled more for printing than online reading.

I would say rather that it would be nice if eReading were the norm.  It might not be "on-line".  But if the specifications were able to be readily read on my computer / tablet with all that implies, it would be a big improvement.  I agree that we also need to continue to serve the (large but decreasing) community that wants to print it out.
 

For a spec. of any size, I think we could do much better at providing (automatically) navigation help etc.  Perhaps that includes the multi-page/one-page choices.  For me it also includes (a) knowing where anchors are, so I can point at them from the outside (if they are not part of the index, it’s not evident they are there).

We are looking at this in the ReSpec arena now in the context of cross referencing.  ReSpec / specref and Bikeshed / Shepherd sort of deal with it, but we need to get better at it.  Right now ReSpec does support permalinks though.  And that's a decent way to get well defined external links for referencing (at the section / header level).
 

Something that is probably more than ReSpec and is surely more than styling would be to make it much easier to know where concepts are used — ‘backlinks’ (this anchor is referred to from X, Y, Z), and so on.

We are able to do this now in theory.  How would you envision such information manifesting itself?  tooltip? context menu?  Auto-generated glossary with links to where the items are referenced?
 


On Oct 10, 2014, at 22:07 , fantasai <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> We're looking into redesigning the W3C spec templates and style sheets
> to reduce boilerplate content and improve usability and readability.
> To help guide this project, we wanted to collect some information from
> all the W3C WGs!
>
> So please forward this to your WGs; answers are welcome from WGs as a
> whole and/or individual members, or some combination thereof, however
> your group prefers to answer. Send them to [hidden email] [public].
>
>  1. Give me 3-5 adjectives for how the visual design of
>     a W3C spec should "feel".
>
>  2. List the URLs to 3 specs that are representative of
>     your WG's output (especially wrt markup and structure
>     of the content).
>
>  3. Do you have any documentation of your markup conventions?
>     Please paste URLs:
>
>  4. What spec processing tools does your WG actively use?
>
>  5. What are your goals for the redesign?
>
>  6. Is there anything else we should know / consider?
>
>
> Note: This project is going to be a consensus-driven experiment, so
> feedback will be welcome throughout. However, it is also a spare-time
> project, so progress might be a bit slow and sporadic. :)
>
> More information at https://www.w3.org/wiki/SpecProd/Restyle
>
> Thanks~
> ~fantasai
>

David Singer
Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.



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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

Tab Atkins Jr.
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Shane McCarron <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 12:53 PM, David Singer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> For a spec. of any size, I think we could do much better at providing
>> (automatically) navigation help etc.  Perhaps that includes the
>> multi-page/one-page choices.  For me it also includes (a) knowing where
>> anchors are, so I can point at them from the outside (if they are not part
>> of the index, it’s not evident they are there).
>
> We are looking at this in the ReSpec arena now in the context of cross
> referencing.  ReSpec / specref and Bikeshed / Shepherd sort of deal with it,
> but we need to get better at it.  Right now ReSpec does support permalinks
> though.  And that's a decent way to get well defined external links for
> referencing (at the section / header level).

So does Bikeshed - headings and dfns always get permalinks, as do a
few other types of elements if they have ids.  Permalinks are great.

>> Something that is probably more than ReSpec and is surely more than
>> styling would be to make it much easier to know where concepts are used —
>> ‘backlinks’ (this anchor is referred to from X, Y, Z), and so on.
>
> We are able to do this now in theory.  How would you envision such
> information manifesting itself?  tooltip? context menu?  Auto-generated
> glossary with links to where the items are referenced?

The HTML spec has a useful popup when you click on a <dfn> that shows
all the places that reference it, and when you click on one of those
it follows you around until you click somewhere outside of it, so you
can follow more references if necessary.

~TJ

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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

David Singer
In reply to this post by Shane McCarron

On Oct 13, 2014, at 11:01 , Shane McCarron <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 12:53 PM, David Singer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think my top request would be to make on-line reading the norm and a printed version works/exists, but is secondary.  At the moment, I would say we’re styled more for printing than online reading.
>
> I would say rather that it would be nice if eReading were the norm.

me culpa, casual writing on my part; yes, I meant eReading, not literally being connected to the servers.

David Singer
Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.


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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

fantasai
In reply to this post by nigelmegitt
On 10/13/2014 05:46 AM, Nigel Megitt wrote:
> Should this include wiki pages? Our (i.e. the W3C TTWG's) TTML spec
> references a more dynamically updatable registry of attribute values at
> [1], so to that extent the output generated from MediaWiki can be
> considered publicly viewable and at least an adjunct to, if not a
> normative part of, our specifications. Therefore IMHO the styling of W3C
> wiki pages is somewhat relevant to this redesign work.

I'm restricting it just to the /TR/foo/ spec pages themselves.
It's possible this may inform future styling of wikis and websites
and random other things, but the main issue is tr.css &co.

~fantasai

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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

Robin Berjon-6
In reply to this post by David Singer
On 13/10/2014 19:53 , David Singer wrote:

> For a spec. of any size, I think we could do much better at providing
> (automatically) navigation help etc.  Perhaps that includes the
> multi-page/one-page choices.  For me it also includes (a) knowing
> where anchors are, so I can point at them from the outside (if they
> are not part of the index, it’s not evident they are there).
>
> Something that is probably more than ReSpec and is surely more than
> styling would be to make it much easier to know where concepts are
> used — ‘backlinks’ (this anchor is referred to from X, Y, Z), and so
> on.

About a year ago I spent some time hacking on a small script called
"specstatic":

     https://github.com/darobin/specstatic

I haven't had time to pursue it properly, but the goal was to offer out
of the box enhancements for all specs (not just ReSpec generated,
anything that relies on some minimal conventions), including:

   - Built-in dialog to submit new bugs
   - Make all headers easily linkable with a permalink indicator (though
that might be best supported by generators directly)
   - Make <dfn> popup a list of places where the definition is used.
   - Make bibrefs link back to their usage instances.
   - Inject a more readable style than what is used on TR that people
could optionally turn on (and that would stick through a cookie).
   - Highlight other instances of a variable in an algorithm when one is
hovered.

And likely a bunch of other niceties that I forget about. I will
probably return to it at some point, in the meantime feel free to grab,
fork, dissect, replace, etc. if you think it's useful.

--
Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/ - @robinberjon

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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

nigelmegitt
In reply to this post by fantasai
On 13/10/2014 22:54, "fantasai" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On 10/13/2014 05:46 AM, Nigel Megitt wrote:
>> Should this include wiki pages? Our (i.e. the W3C TTWG's) TTML spec
>> references a more dynamically updatable registry of attribute values at
>> [1], so to that extent the output generated from MediaWiki can be
>> considered publicly viewable and at least an adjunct to, if not a
>> normative part of, our specifications. Therefore IMHO the styling of W3C
>> wiki pages is somewhat relevant to this redesign work.
>
>I'm restricting it just to the /TR/foo/ spec pages themselves.
>It's possible this may inform future styling of wikis and websites
>and random other things, but the main issue is tr.css &co.

Thanks fantasai - that's clear.

nigel

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Re: [restyle] Questionnaire wrt Redesign of the W3C Spec Templates

David Singer
In reply to this post by Robin Berjon-6
sounds awesome.

Another thing that might make online reading great would be folding.  I wonder how it would feel to have (a) ‘twist-downs’ on each header, to show/hide the contents and (b) some way to say that for the whole document, I want to see headers of say sections 1, 2, 3, and the header and content of 1.1, 2.1, 3.1, but not 1.2…

So, assuming each chapter has an intro sub-section, this gives you an overview of the document.




On Oct 14, 2014, at 3:03 , Robin Berjon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 13/10/2014 19:53 , David Singer wrote:
>> For a spec. of any size, I think we could do much better at providing
>> (automatically) navigation help etc.  Perhaps that includes the
>> multi-page/one-page choices.  For me it also includes (a) knowing
>> where anchors are, so I can point at them from the outside (if they
>> are not part of the index, it’s not evident they are there).
>>
>> Something that is probably more than ReSpec and is surely more than
>> styling would be to make it much easier to know where concepts are
>> used — ‘backlinks’ (this anchor is referred to from X, Y, Z), and so
>> on.
>
> About a year ago I spent some time hacking on a small script called "specstatic":
>
>    https://github.com/darobin/specstatic
>
> I haven't had time to pursue it properly, but the goal was to offer out of the box enhancements for all specs (not just ReSpec generated, anything that relies on some minimal conventions), including:
>
>  - Built-in dialog to submit new bugs
>  - Make all headers easily linkable with a permalink indicator (though that might be best supported by generators directly)
>  - Make <dfn> popup a list of places where the definition is used.
>  - Make bibrefs link back to their usage instances.
>  - Inject a more readable style than what is used on TR that people could optionally turn on (and that would stick through a cookie).
>  - Highlight other instances of a variable in an algorithm when one is hovered.
>
> And likely a bunch of other niceties that I forget about. I will probably return to it at some point, in the meantime feel free to grab, fork, dissect, replace, etc. if you think it's useful.
>
> --
> Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/ - @robinberjon
>

David Singer
Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.


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