{minutes} TTWG Meeting 2016-06-09

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{minutes} TTWG Meeting 2016-06-09

nigelmegitt

Thanks to those who attended today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html

We made one resolution in relation to our use of pull requests as described under the TTML agenda item:

RESOLUTION: Accept the proposed process as described in the agenda for a trial period of 3 months and then review it.
The review period for this resolution under our Decision Policy ends on 23rd June 2016.

In text format:

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

09 Jun 2016

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Andreas, Glenn, Nigel, Thierry, Mike(IRC_only)

   Regrets
          Frans

   Chair
          Nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]This meeting
         2. [5]Charter
         3. [6]IMSC
         4. [7]TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs etc
         5. [8]Profiles registry
         6. [9]TPAC
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     * [11]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <mike> regrets from me on audio - just lurking on IRC today

This meeting

   <scribe> scribe: nigel

   nigel: It's been a couple of weeks - shall we cover mainly
   TTML?
   ... In AOB I'd like to mention a BBC submission also
   ... AOB?

   group: No AOB.

   nigel: I'm about to take a 2 week vacation. Would anyone like
   to chair while I'm absent?

   glenn: I may be able to, but need to confirm.

   nigel: Okay, thanks - let's catch up on that later.

Charter

   nigel: Since we last met our new Charter has been approved!
   ... [12]https://www.w3.org/2016/05/timed-text-charter.html

     [12] https://www.w3.org/2016/05/timed-text-charter.html

   <scribe> ACTION: tmichel Update TTWG home page to point to new
   Charter [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html#action01]

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-471 - Update ttwg home page to point
   to new charter [on Thierry Michel - due 2016-06-16].

IMSC

   nigel: I don't think we have any specific topics to mention for
   IMSC today, but we did
   ... publish the press release, which has already begun some
   conversations in industry.

TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs etc

   nigel: First can we cover the pull request process proposal?
   ... I think I've verified that all parties are happy with the
   current proposal, as described
   ... in the agenda, to allow for early merge with labelling, and
   a minimum 3 business days
   ... between opening a PR and merging it.

   PROPOSAL: Accept the proposed process as described in the
   agenda for a trial period of 3 months and then review it.

   RESOLUTION: Accept the proposed process as described in the
   agenda for a trial period of 3 months and then review it.

   nigel: It's also worth noting that Glenn has described how this
   works for TTML2 at
   ... [14]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/gh-pages/EDITING.md
   ... Thanks all for helping us get to this agreement.
   ... Let's move to Actions.

     [14] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/gh-pages/EDITING.md

   action-386?

   <trackbot> action-386 -- Glenn Adams to Investigate whether
   region style inheritance from tt is necessary given the ability
   to redefine initial values -- due 2015-04-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [15]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/386

     [15] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/386

   glenn: [describes comment in the action]. It is possible that
   the two mechanisms overlap
   ... in some cases, but we don't have an issue to solve here.
   ... So that's the investigation, which fulfils the action.

   nigel: What are the cases where it is desirable to use root
   inheritance but not override the initial value on a inheritable
   style?

   glenn: It's an authorial decision and also to do with what is
   efficient.
   ... I made some notes on this and found that for translating
   into TTML in some cases it
   ... is better to use initial and in others to use root
   inheritance. I'm not sure that we have
   ... enough implementation experience here either.
   ... I would like a concrete set of test sequences that verify
   this. I wouldn't object to
   ... returning to this question again later as we get closer to
   CR, to see what the TTPE and
   ... TTV implementation experience tells us. Originally the root
   inheritance was intended
   ... to allow common inheritable styles for region elements.
   ... Later on we realised there was also a need to override
   initial values when they are left
   ... to be implementation dependent like tts:color. Both of
   those feature requests go back
   ... to an earlier list of change proposals and items listed in
   those. So they had two
   ... different origins. That's how we got here. The implicit
   proposal is to merge them
   ... together. It makes it a little more complicated to describe
   in the spec that way. I have
   ... to admit that implementing and testing both is a little
   more work. I'm not comfortable
   ... merging them at this point but I'd like to see where
   implementation experience takes us.

   close action-386

   <trackbot> Closed action-386.

   action-404?

   <trackbot> action-404 -- Glenn Adams to Add note to issue 341
   to reflect his current thinking -- due 2015-06-11 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [16]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/404

     [16] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/404

   glenn: Issue-341 is a tracker issue, just to be clear.

   issue-341?

   <trackbot> issue-341 -- ambiguous definition for determination
   of descendant region identifier -- open

   <trackbot>
   [17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/341

     [17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/341

   glenn: I need folk to look at and think about and respond to
   this. We need to make a
   ... design choice. I have proposed a particular option out of
   4.

   [18]https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/194

     [18] https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/194

   nigel: There is no equivalent TTML2 issue.
   ... I think this relates also to the processing of implied
   anonymous inline regions,
   ... where a proposal made was, rather then the current semantic
   of creating a new
   ... anonymous region, that instead the currently selected
   region would be modified if a
   ... region style attribute such as tts:origin were specified on
   an element, e.g. a <p>.

   <glenn> glenn: i'm not ready to concede this is a good or
   useful idea, i.e., having an anonymous region somehow override
   a region derived from an ancestor

   nigel: Since I can't see an issue for this, I need to go back
   and look and make sure there is one so we don't lose this.

   <glenn> glenn: i think this will probably complicate processing
   in a big way

   nigel: My reasoning is that I *think* when people specify
   origin or extent on a div or a p
   ... this is what they expect, to modify the current region and
   retain all style settings.

   <scribe> ACTION: nigel make sure there is a TTML2 issue for
   considering adjustment of inline region semantics [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html#action02]

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-472 - Make sure there is a ttml2
   issue for considering adjustment of inline region semantics [on
   Nigel Megitt - due 2016-06-16].

   glenn: We need to figure out what we think should be right and
   then figure out how badly that may break anything.

   <tmichel> tmichel: no specific view

   close action-404

   <trackbot> Closed action-404.

   action-458?

   <trackbot> action-458 -- Glenn Adams to Create issue re: line
   height calculation for inline -- due 2016-04-07 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [20]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/458

     [20] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/458

   glenn: I created [21]https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/212

     [21] https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/212

   nigel: Thank you. Do we need an equivalent for TTML2?

   glenn: Probably! Generally errata in TTML1 create an issue in
   TTML2
   ... I'll go ahead and create an issue in TTML2 and cross
   reference the TTML1 issue URL

   close action-458

   <trackbot> Closed action-458.

   nigel: I'd like to mention the submission that I made just at
   the start of this meeting.

   [22]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Jun/0003
   .html

     [22] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Jun/0003.html

   nigel: This comes partly out of work done in another group,
   where we were considering
   ... the case that TTML is used for subtitles or captions over
   video in one video aspect ratio
   ... when the video is displayed on a different aspect ratio and
   partially cropped as a result.

   <glenn> created github issue for ttml2
   [23]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/163 related to ttml1
   issue 212; semantics of line height, inline height

     [23] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/163

   glenn: Another issue that may be related is that there's some
   desire to specify positioning
   ... of subtitles outside the root container region, or have it
   be larger than a video frame.
   ... For example with letter box where you want the subtitles to
   appear beneath or above
   ... content in black bars.

Profiles registry

   action-470?

   <trackbot> action-470 -- Nigel Megitt to Update the
   publications wiki page for the profile registry -- due
   2016-05-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [24]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/470

     [24] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/470

   nigel: I did that.

   close action-470

   <trackbot> Closed action-470.

   nigel: We also have action-468 and action-469 on plh

   tmichel: I have no update but will look into it.

   nigel: There's also a useful process point to note, which is
   that the W3C pull request
   ... checker (ash-nazg) now has an option for marking pull
   requests as non-substantive,
   ... and this has been used on
   [25]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/20
   ... which means that the Editor can now merge this safely
   without worrying about IPR.

     [25] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/20

TPAC

   glenn: Registration is now open.

   nigel: Thanks for the reminder!
   [26]https://www.w3.org/2016/09/TPAC/
   ... Registration:
   [27]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2016/?login
   ... Okay. Thanks everyone, I'll be back here in 3 weeks!
   [adjourns meeting]

     [26] https://www.w3.org/2016/09/TPAC/
     [27] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2016/?login

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: nigel make sure there is a TTML2 issue for
   considering adjustment of inline region semantics [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: tmichel Update TTWG home page to point to new
   Charter [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html#action01]

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html#action02
     [29] http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-tt-minutes.html#action01

Summary of Resolutions

    1. [30]Accept the proposed process as described in the agenda
       for a trial period of 3 months and then review it.

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [31]scribe.perl version
    1.144 ([32]CVS log)
    $Date: 2016/06/09 15:07:02 $

     [31] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
     [32] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/


 

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