[minutes] BPWG Call 2010-09-28

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[minutes] BPWG Call 2010-09-28

Francois Daoust
Hi,

The minutes of today's call are available at:
  http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-minutes.html

... and pasted as raw text at the end of this message.

Two important decisions taken today:

1. the working group requests transition of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices (MWABP) specification from Last Call to Proposed Recommendation (skipping a second Candidate Recommendation phase as the implementation report is completed). I am to work on setting up the transition. Dan, Jo and I will inform the group on progress.

2. the working group reluctantly decided to remove the Guidelines for Web Content Transformation Proxies from rec-track, and to publish the document as a Working Group Note. Jo and I will work offline on the preamble wording for the note.

A short charter extension (two weeks to one month) is envisioned, but we'll wait for result of transition call for MWABP before formally requesting the extension.

No call next week. Next call after MWABP transition call, probably in two weeks from now.

Francois.


-----
28 Sep 2010

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2010Sep/0010.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           adam, DKA, francois, jo, twhume, SeanP

    Regrets
           yeliz, kai, miguel

    Chair
           jo

    Scribe
           Dan

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Mobile Web Application Best Practices (a.k.a) BP2
          2. [6][lovely] CT Guidelines
          3. [7]AOB?
          4. [8]Issues & Actions clean-up
      * [9]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

Mobile Web Application Best Practices (a.k.a) BP2

    Jo: Francois? A run-down?

    <francois> [10]MWABP implementation report

      [10] http://www.w3.org/2010/07/mwabp-implementation-report

    <EdC> The matrix of implementation reports looks good.

    Francois: We are good. There are 3 best practices for which we don't
    have 2 proper implementation reports but I think it's OK. We have
    evidence of implementation in the world of "fingerprinting" - links
    in discussion in the mailing list.

    PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We are good to go on fingerprinting.

    <EdC> Why are entries in the column Uxebu marked "yes" instead of
    "pass" ?

    PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We are good to go on fingerprinting - i.e.
    point 14 of the implementation report ya know.

    <jo> +1

    +1

    <adam> +1

    <twhume> +1

    <francois> +1

    <EdC> 0

    RESOLUTION: We are good to go on fingerprinting - i.e. point 14 of
    the implementation report.

    [no objections]

    <francois> [EdC, there's indeed a slight problem in the table
    layout, I'll fix that]

    Francois: Moving to number 21. We have 2 implementation reports for
    that. I just note that the last implementation report said that they
    don't think it's that useful on mobile devices. I don't think we
    should worry about it.
    ... Unless there are any objections don't think we need a
    resolution.

    Jo: OK.

    Francois: Number 22- use fragment ID...
    ... We have multiple implementation reports but they all come from
    the same companies. Pity we don't have evidence from more than 1
    company but it does exist in the wild...

    Jo: It is extemely widely used - so not worried.

    Adam: It's worth noting that it's wildly used on desktop as well.

    PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We agree that Nunber 22- use fragment ID is OK
    to go even though all the formal implementation reports are from one
    company...

    <adam> +1

    <EdC> +1

    <francois> +1

    <jo> +1

    +1

    <twhume> +1

    RESOLUTION: We agree that Nunber 22- use fragment ID is OK to go
    even though all the formal implementation reports are from one
    company

    Francois: Last one is 26 - consider ... - 3 partial implementations
    from 3 different companies. So I think we are good to go.
    ... It's a "consider" best practice so difficult to define where
    line should be drawn.

    <EdC> And it proposes several methods, so partial might have been
    interpreted as "we use only one of all these".

    PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We are agreed that nunber 26 - consider .. is
    OK even considering we only have 3 partial implementations...

    <EdC> +1

    <adam> +1

    <twhume> +1

    <jo> +1

    <francois> +1

    RESOLUTION: We are agreed that nunber 26 - consider .. is OK even
    considering we only have 3 partial implementations...

    Jo: Now we go to the transition request...

    Francois: before that I'd like to mention replies to the last call
    comments. We received the response from PFWG - they sent a positive
    response. One of the responses was not send to the public mailing
    list - it has not arrived there yet - I will chase him for this.

    Jo: We have a record from you (here) that this response has been
    received.

    Francois: yes, we are not waiting for any further reply - I will
    prepare disposition of comments.

    <scribe> ACTION: Daoust to prepare distribution of comments for BP2.
    [recorded in
    [11]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1072 - Prepare distribution of comments
    for BP2. [on François Daoust - due 2010-10-05].

    <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The BPWG requests transition of Mobile Web
    Applications Best Practices (aka BP2) to Proposed Recommendation.
    There is no need for the document to go through Candidate
    Recommendation again.

    <francois> +1

    +1

    <twhume> +1

    <jo> +1

    <adam> +1

    Jo: Any objections?

    <EdC> +

    <EdC> +1

    [none heard]

    RESOLUTION: The BPWG requests transition of Mobile Web Applications
    Best Practices (aka BP2) to Proposed Recommendation. There is no
    need for the document to go through Candidate Recommendation again.

    woo hoo!

    Francois: This means we need to request transition - it will take
    some time... Then Dan, Jo and I will have to attend a transition
    call with "the Director".

    Jo: Transition call within 2 weeks...

    Francois: Hopefully. Then 4 weeks minimum in PR.

    Thanks Adam!

[lovely] CT Guidelines

    Jo: Any last minute news from anybody on an implementation report
    that is forthcoming?
    ... If not, we don't have sufficient implementation evidence.

    Francois: That's correct.

    Jo: Anybody on this call here have anything to say about this?

    Adam: Aaron said he was going to...

    Jo: He kindly provided a report but it did not support a sufficient
    number of the points of conformance.

    Sean: Bad news [from Nokia]: we're not going to provide a report.

    Jo: I don't see any option that we have. Are we allowed to leave
    this in CR?

    Francois: As soon as the group closes, any remaining work items need
    to be published as a working group note. Seems to be a good idea to
    [publish it as a note] now.

    Jo: It seems a great shame but unless anyone has any brilliant ideas
    - I suggest we go ahead an publish it as a working group note.

    <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: "Downgrade" CT Guidelines to a WG Note and
    request publication as such.

    +1 (reluctantly)

    <francois> +1

    <SeanP> +1

    <adam> +1

    <twhume> +1 with a meh

    <EdC> +1 (sadly)

    <jo> +1 (it's a bitter pill to swallow)

    <EdC> how are group members (especiallly

    <EdC> operators and transcoder vendors) will utilize the CTG,

    <EdC> even if only as a WG note?

    RESOLUTION: "Downgrade" CT Guidelines to a WG Note and request
    publication as such.

    Jo: Whilst it would have more force as a recommendation, in practice
    getting the work out there in a published form is worth-while
    [whether it be Note or Recommendation].
    ... Francois, can you adjust the content of the document to turn it
    from a Rec into a Note. The main bits are in the preamble. We will
    take it offline.

    <jo> ACTION: Jo to talk with Francois about what is needed to enact
    the above resolution on CT Guidelines [recorded in
    [12]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1073 - Talk with Francois about what is
    needed to enact the above resolution on CT Guidelines [on Jo Rabin -
    due 2010-10-05].

    Jo: Anything else on CT guidelines?

AOB?

    Jo: Charter extension - sounds like it's going to take at least 6
    weeks for BP2 to reach rec. So we need to request an extension or
    make w3m aware that we need an extension.

    Francois: We should wait for response on our request to transition
    to PR.

    Jo: ok - so later in october we will request an extension.
    ... We should close off outstanding issues and actions.

Issues & Actions clean-up

    Jo: No open issues.
    ... Open Actions - we have 21...

    ACTION-1003?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1003 -- Bruce Lawson to follow up within Opera as
    to what exactly the XSS test scripts supplied by chaals guard
    against -- due 2009-09-08 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1003

      [13] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1003

    close action-1003

    <trackbot> ACTION-1003 Follow up within Opera as to what exactly the
    XSS test scripts supplied by chaals guard against closed

    action-1008

    action-1008?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1008 -- Adam Connors to check if Google has tests
    they could contribute for CT guidelines -- due 2009-09-22 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1008

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1008

    close action-1008

    <trackbot> ACTION-1008 Check if Google has tests they could
    contribute for CT guidelines closed

    action-1022?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1022 -- Daniel Appelquist to ping internally in
    Vodafone to see if we have any ability to help with CT test suites.
    -- due 2009-10-27 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1022

      [15] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1022

    <EdC> Do we close at least with an indication that they are closed
    without final resolution ?

    I never got any joy.

    close action-1022

    <trackbot> ACTION-1022 Ping internally in Vodafone to see if we have
    any ability to help with CT test suites. closed

    action-1035?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1035 -- Daniel Appelquist to create a plan to
    raise awareness on mobileOK through some campaign -- due 2009-12-18
    -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1035

      [16] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1035

    <scribe> ongoing

    yes

    leave it open

    action-1038?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1038 -- François Daoust to look into mobile Web
    Applications within W3C that implement some of the Mobile Web
    Application Best Practices. -- due 2010-02-16 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1038

      [17] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1038

    Francois: I've had a look...

    close action-1038

    <trackbot> ACTION-1038 Look into mobile Web Applications within W3C
    that implement some of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices.
    closed

    action-1039?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1039 -- Tom Hume to look into mobile Web
    Application within Future Platforms and provide implementation
    report for MWABP -- due 2010-02-16 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1039

      [18] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1039

    Tom: Provided.

    Jo: done and closed.

    close action-1039

    <trackbot> ACTION-1039 Look into mobile Web Application within
    Future Platforms and provide implementation report for MWABP closed

    Didn't do.

    close action-1040

    <trackbot> ACTION-1040 Make a post about MWABP to entice people to
    provide feedback closed

    Did do but no response.

    <EdC> Once more, when you close, is there an indication that the
    actions were actually dropped (no resolution) instead of closed with
    a resolution?

    action-1041?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1041 -- Daniel Appelquist to contact facebook and
    Opera ref implementation reports for BP2 -- due 2010-03-09 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1041

      [19] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1041

    did but no response.

    close action-1041

    <trackbot> ACTION-1041 Contact facebook and Opera ref implementation
    reports for BP2 closed

    action-1043?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1043 -- Daniel Appelquist to see if on-deck apps
    and betavine could be a source of implementation reports -- due
    2010-04-06 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1043

      [20] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1043

    Nothing forthcoming here.

    close action-1043

    <trackbot> ACTION-1043 See if on-deck apps and betavine could be a
    source of implementation reports closed

    action-1050?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1050 -- Jeffrey Sonstein to help find 2
    implementations of 5 and 6 by 30 June. -- due 2010-06-29 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1050

      [21] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1050

    close action-1050

    <trackbot> ACTION-1050 Help find 2 implementations of 5 and 6 by 30
    June. closed

    action-1052

    close action-1052

    <trackbot> ACTION-1052 Investigate CT implementation report closed

    close action-1053

    <trackbot> ACTION-1053 Investigate CT implementation report closed

    action-1055?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1055 -- François Daoust to see with Jérôme about
    CT implementation report -- due 2010-06-29 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1055

      [22] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1055

    close action-1055

    <trackbot> ACTION-1055 See with Jérôme about CT implementation
    report closed

    action-1059?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1059 -- Daniel Appelquist to ping Bytemobile about
    CT implementation report -- due 2010-06-29 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1059

      [23] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1059

    no response...

    close action-1059

    <trackbot> ACTION-1059 Ping Bytemobile about CT implementation
    report closed

    action-1061?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1061 -- Daniel Appelquist to write the explanatory
    text for the "further considerations" section. -- due 2010-07-13 --
    OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1061

      [24] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1061

    close action-1061

    <trackbot> ACTION-1061 Write the explanatory text for the "further
    considerations" section. closed

    action-1062?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1062 -- Jo Rabin to formulate action plan with
    Francois and Dan -- due 2010-07-27 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1062

      [25] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1062

    close action-1062

    <trackbot> ACTION-1062 Formulate action plan with Francois and Dan
    closed

    action-1066?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1066 -- Adam Connors to enact LC-2415 -- due
    2010-08-31 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1066

      [26] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1066

    Jo: Done.

    close action-1066

    <trackbot> ACTION-1066 Enact LC-2415 closed

    action-1070?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1070 -- Adam Connors to find prepare a short doc
    with references to remaining best practices -- due 2010-09-14 --
    OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1070

      [27] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1070

    francois: This was done.

    close action-1070

    <trackbot> ACTION-1070 Find prepare a short doc with references to
    remaining best practices closed

    action-1071?

    <trackbot> ACTION-1071 -- Daniel Appelquist to send inspirational
    email to working group to get people to send implementation reports
    on CT -- due 2010-09-14 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1071

      [28] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1071

    didn't feel inspirational.

    close action-1071

    <trackbot> ACTION-1071 Send inspirational email to working group to
    get people to send implementation reports on CT closed

    ok

    Jo: 3 actions remain... and that is about it.

    <francois> ACTION: daoust to send transition request to PR for MWABP
    [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-1074 - Send transition request to PR for
    MWABP [on François Daoust - due 2010-10-05].

    jo: anything else?
    ... Little point in having a call next week (Oct 5 2010) and to
    resume following transition call.

    OK with me.

    <EdC> Ok with me as well.

    thx!

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Daoust to prepare distribution of comments for BP2.
    [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: daoust to send transition request to PR for MWABP
    [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Jo to talk with Francois about what is needed to enact
    the above resolution on CT Guidelines [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]

    [End of minutes]