What's the difference between AHEM____.TTF and ahem3.ttf ?

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What's the difference between AHEM____.TTF and ahem3.ttf ?

Gérard Talbot-3
Hello,

http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/ahem/
AHEM____.TTF      2014-05-30 00:04   12K

http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/
ahem3.ttf         2014-05-30 00:04   14K

What is the adequate usage for ahem3.ttf ?

In what way is ahem3.ttf different (or better) from (than) AHEM____.TTF
?

Gérard
--
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Re: What's the difference between AHEM____.TTF and ahem3.ttf ?

Peter Linss
Not sure offhand but one (or both) of them are probably there for negative effect (or at least were at one point). IIRC there were tests that should NOT use those fonts unless there was a bug, so the use of that font would cause the test to fail in a visible way. I could be mis-remembering (or mixing this up with other tests), and these tests may not be present any more.

Peter



> On Mar 22, 2016, at 11:59 AM, Gérard Talbot <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/ahem/
> AHEM____.TTF      2014-05-30 00:04   12K
>
> http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/
> ahem3.ttf         2014-05-30 00:04   14K
>
> What is the adequate usage for ahem3.ttf ?
>
> In what way is ahem3.ttf different (or better) from (than) AHEM____.TTF ?
>
> Gérard
> --
> Test Format Guidelines
> http://testthewebforward.org/docs/test-format-guidelines.html
>
> Test Style Guidelines
> http://testthewebforward.org/docs/test-style-guidelines.html
>
> Test Templates
> http://testthewebforward.org/docs/test-templates.html
>
> CSS Naming Guidelines
> http://testthewebforward.org/docs/css-naming.html
>
> Test Review Checklist
> http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html
>
> CSS Metadata
> http://testthewebforward.org/docs/css-metadata.html
>


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Re: What's the difference between AHEM____.TTF and ahem3.ttf ?

Geoffrey Sneddon-4
In reply to this post by Gérard Talbot-3
On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Gérard Talbot
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/ahem/
> AHEM____.TTF      2014-05-30 00:04   12K
>
> http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/
> ahem3.ttf         2014-05-30 00:04   14K
>
> What is the adequate usage for ahem3.ttf ?
>
> In what way is ahem3.ttf different (or better) from (than) AHEM____.TTF ?

I asked this question last November in
<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2015Nov/0007.html>,
which covered a bit of background about what the differences are, and
the difference in licenses. I seem to remember trying to resolve this
back in 2010, but I have no idea how. Sadly, nobody seems to know
anymore…

/Geoffrey.

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Re: What's the difference between AHEM____.TTF and ahem3.ttf ?

fantasai
On 03/24/2016 01:26 PM, Geoffrey Sneddon wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Gérard Talbot
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/ahem/
>> AHEM____.TTF      2014-05-30 00:04   12K
>>
>> http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/
>> ahem3.ttf         2014-05-30 00:04   14K
>>
>> What is the adequate usage for ahem3.ttf ?
>>
>> In what way is ahem3.ttf different (or better) from (than) AHEM____.TTF ?
>
> I asked this question last November in
> <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2015Nov/0007.html>,
> which covered a bit of background about what the differences are, and
> the difference in licenses. I seem to remember trying to resolve this
> back in 2010, but I have no idea how. Sadly, nobody seems to know
> anymore…

Okay, I called up Arron Eicholz. Apparently this is a replacement
of the old Ahem font, that includes some glyphs above the ASCII
range to allow testing it. It was created by Sergei at Microsoft.

We should probably move it into the ahem/ directory and replace
the AHEM____.TTF file. There are two ways of doing that:

a) Replace AHEM____.TTF
b) Delete AHEM____.TTF and move ahem3.ttf to fonts/ahem.ttf

I'm not sure what's up with the AHEM____.TTF naming, if it indicates
some kind of special compatibility with ancient Windows systems or
what...

Fonts are scary. Tell me what to do. >_<;;

~fantasai

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Re: What's the difference between AHEM____.TTF and ahem3.ttf ?

Gérard Talbot-3
Le 2016-07-26 16:02, fantasai a écrit :

> On 03/24/2016 01:26 PM, Geoffrey Sneddon wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Gérard Talbot
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/ahem/
>>> AHEM____.TTF      2014-05-30 00:04   12K
>>>
>>> http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/
>>> ahem3.ttf         2014-05-30 00:04   14K
>>>
>>> What is the adequate usage for ahem3.ttf ?
>>>
>>> In what way is ahem3.ttf different (or better) from (than)
>>> AHEM____.TTF ?
>>
>> I asked this question last November in
>> <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2015Nov/0007.html>,
>> which covered a bit of background about what the differences are, and
>> the difference in licenses. I seem to remember trying to resolve this
>> back in 2010, but I have no idea how. Sadly, nobody seems to know
>> anymore…
>
> Okay, I called up Arron Eicholz. Apparently this is a replacement
> of the old Ahem font, that includes some glyphs above the ASCII
> range


Which glyphs above the ASCII range ?

I would try to use such glyphs in my tests and testing... if I knew
which codepoint render which shape ...

> to allow testing it. It was created by Sergei at Microsoft.
>
> We should probably move it into the ahem/ directory and replace
> the AHEM____.TTF file. There are two ways of doing that:
>
> a) Replace AHEM____.TTF
> b) Delete AHEM____.TTF and move ahem3.ttf to fonts/ahem.ttf

a) or b) are okay with me; either one is okay with me... as long as the
textual description [1] is updated to include the new codepoints
corresponding to the shapes. One shape seems to be an hollow black
square above the alphabetic baseline.


> I'm not sure what's up with the AHEM____.TTF naming, if it indicates
> some kind of special compatibility with ancient Windows systems or
> what...


I do not know either why the 4 underscore characters in the font name
...


[1]
https://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/Fonts/Ahem/

Gérard


> Fonts are scary. Tell me what to do. >_<;;
>
> ~fantasai

--
Test Format Guidelines
http://testthewebforward.org/docs/test-format-guidelines.html

Test Style Guidelines
http://testthewebforward.org/docs/test-style-guidelines.html

Test Templates
http://testthewebforward.org/docs/test-templates.html

CSS Naming Guidelines
http://testthewebforward.org/docs/css-naming.html

Test Review Checklist
http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html

CSS Metadata
http://testthewebforward.org/docs/css-metadata.html

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Re: What's the difference between AHEM____.TTF and ahem3.ttf ?

Christian Biesinger-3
For the underscores in the filename, see http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/font/pdfs/5088.FontNames.pdf p. 15

-Christian

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Gérard Talbot <[hidden email]> wrote:
Le 2016-07-26 16:02, fantasai a écrit :
On 03/24/2016 01:26 PM, Geoffrey Sneddon wrote:
On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Gérard Talbot
<[hidden email]> wrote:
http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/ahem/
AHEM____.TTF      2014-05-30 00:04   12K

http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/
ahem3.ttf         2014-05-30 00:04   14K

What is the adequate usage for ahem3.ttf ?

In what way is ahem3.ttf different (or better) from (than) AHEM____.TTF ?

I asked this question last November in
<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2015Nov/0007.html>,
which covered a bit of background about what the differences are, and
the difference in licenses. I seem to remember trying to resolve this
back in 2010, but I have no idea how. Sadly, nobody seems to know
anymore…

Okay, I called up Arron Eicholz. Apparently this is a replacement
of the old Ahem font, that includes some glyphs above the ASCII
range


Which glyphs above the ASCII range ?

I would try to use such glyphs in my tests and testing... if I knew which codepoint render which shape ...

to allow testing it. It was created by Sergei at Microsoft.

We should probably move it into the ahem/ directory and replace
the AHEM____.TTF file. There are two ways of doing that:

a) Replace AHEM____.TTF
b) Delete AHEM____.TTF and move ahem3.ttf to fonts/ahem.ttf

a) or b) are okay with me; either one is okay with me... as long as the textual description [1] is updated to include the new codepoints corresponding to the shapes. One shape seems to be an hollow black square above the alphabetic baseline.


I'm not sure what's up with the AHEM____.TTF naming, if it indicates
some kind of special compatibility with ancient Windows systems or
what...


I do not know either why the 4 underscore characters in the font name ...


[1]
https://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/Fonts/Ahem/

Gérard


Fonts are scary. Tell me what to do. >_<;;

~fantasai

--
Test Format Guidelines
http://testthewebforward.org/docs/test-format-guidelines.html

Test Style Guidelines
http://testthewebforward.org/docs/test-style-guidelines.html

Test Templates
http://testthewebforward.org/docs/test-templates.html

CSS Naming Guidelines
http://testthewebforward.org/docs/css-naming.html

Test Review Checklist
http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html

CSS Metadata
http://testthewebforward.org/docs/css-metadata.html


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Re: What's the difference between AHEM____.TTF and ahem3.ttf ?

Geoffrey Sneddon-4
In reply to this post by fantasai
On 26/07/16 21:02, fantasai wrote:

> On 03/24/2016 01:26 PM, Geoffrey Sneddon wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Gérard Talbot
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/ahem/
>>> AHEM____.TTF      2014-05-30 00:04   12K
>>>
>>> http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/
>>> ahem3.ttf         2014-05-30 00:04   14K
>>>
>>> What is the adequate usage for ahem3.ttf ?
>>>
>>> In what way is ahem3.ttf different (or better) from (than)
>>> AHEM____.TTF ?
>>
>> I asked this question last November in
>> <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2015Nov/0007.html>,
>>
>> which covered a bit of background about what the differences are, and
>> the difference in licenses. I seem to remember trying to resolve this
>> back in 2010, but I have no idea how. Sadly, nobody seems to know
>> anymore…
>
> Okay, I called up Arron Eicholz. Apparently this is a replacement
> of the old Ahem font, that includes some glyphs above the ASCII
> range to allow testing it. It was created by Sergei at Microsoft.
>
> We should probably move it into the ahem/ directory and replace
> the AHEM____.TTF file. There are two ways of doing that:
>
> a) Replace AHEM____.TTF
> b) Delete AHEM____.TTF and move ahem3.ttf to fonts/ahem.ttf
>
> I'm not sure what's up with the AHEM____.TTF naming, if it indicates
> some kind of special compatibility with ancient Windows systems or
> what...
>
> Fonts are scary. Tell me what to do. >_<;;

Yay! Thanks for calling up and finding this out~

I say b. It really doesn't matter what the file is called, given we
don't actually refer to the filename from anywhere. And I don't think we
need compatibility with any really old PCs. :)

/Geoffrey

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Re: What's the difference between AHEM____.TTF and ahem3.ttf ?

fantasai
In reply to this post by Gérard Talbot-3
On 07/26/2016 04:21 PM, Gérard Talbot wrote:

> Le 2016-07-26 16:02, fantasai a écrit :
>> On 03/24/2016 01:26 PM, Geoffrey Sneddon wrote:
>>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Gérard Talbot
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/ahem/
>>>> AHEM____.TTF      2014-05-30 00:04   12K
>>>>
>>>> http://test.csswg.org/source/fonts/
>>>> ahem3.ttf         2014-05-30 00:04   14K
>>>>
>>>> What is the adequate usage for ahem3.ttf ?
>>>>
>>>> In what way is ahem3.ttf different (or better) from (than) AHEM____.TTF ?
>>>
>>> I asked this question last November in
>>> <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2015Nov/0007.html>,
>>> which covered a bit of background about what the differences are, and
>>> the difference in licenses. I seem to remember trying to resolve this
>>> back in 2010, but I have no idea how. Sadly, nobody seems to know
>>> anymore…
>>
>> Okay, I called up Arron Eicholz. Apparently this is a replacement
>> of the old Ahem font, that includes some glyphs above the ASCII
>> range
>
> Which glyphs above the ASCII range ?

On 07/26/2016 04:58 PM, Sergey Malkin wrote:

>
> For Ahem3 I added bunch of different space characters, all with appropriate widths. Here is full list:
>
> 2002 - en-space
> 2003 - em-space
> 2004 - 3-per-em space
> 2005 - 4-per-em space
> 2006 - six-per-em space
> 2009 - thin space
> 200A - hair space
> 200B - zero-width space
> 200C - zero-width non-joiner
> 200D - zero-width joiner
> 3000 - ideographic space
> FEFF - zero-width non-breaking space
>
> Over the years I also created few Ahem variants for internal testing,
> e.g. with visible non-breaking space, large line height, with large
> ascent only, or large descent only. You can have them in mind if you
> need more standard fonts for testing.

~fantasai