Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

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Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

r12a
I was contacted last week by Don Hollander, General Manager of the Asia
Pacific Top Level Domain Association, who is trying to improve the use
of IDN TLDs in the real world, and looking for support.

See the attached PDF (from him) outlining what are the barriers to the
effective use of IDN TLDs and who can help address these issues.

He's hoping to create a community of interested stakeholders. He expects
this community to include ICANN, many ccTLDs, ISOC, and hopefully
commercial developers. He is also looking to set up some opportunities
to meet and discuss how to move things forward.

If you are interested in getting involved, please raise your voice.

Don says "There is a HUGE population with interest in this - but it is
not really the current 2Billion, but the next 2 Billion - those who
aren’t yet connected."

RI

Addressing the issue of Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs-1.pdf (223K) Download Attachment
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Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

r12a
This EURid-UNESCO World report on Internationalised Domain Names
deployment 2012 may also be of interest.

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/idn/eurid-unesco-deployment-08nov12-en.pdf

RI



On 04/03/2014 12:14, Richard Ishida wrote:

> I was contacted last week by Don Hollander, General Manager of the Asia
> Pacific Top Level Domain Association, who is trying to improve the use
> of IDN TLDs in the real world, and looking for support.
>
> See the attached PDF (from him) outlining what are the barriers to the
> effective use of IDN TLDs and who can help address these issues.
>
> He's hoping to create a community of interested stakeholders. He expects
> this community to include ICANN, many ccTLDs, ISOC, and hopefully
> commercial developers. He is also looking to set up some opportunities
> to meet and discuss how to move things forward.
>
> If you are interested in getting involved, please raise your voice.
>
> Don says "There is a HUGE population with interest in this - but it is
> not really the current 2Billion, but the next 2 Billion - those who
> aren’t yet connected."
>
> RI

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Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

Mark Davis ☕
In reply to this post by r12a

This list is not specific enough to be actionable. One would have to have am asphyxiated document with precise <test cases, desired results, and actual results>.

{phone}

On Mar 4, 2014 4:15 PM, "Richard Ishida" <[hidden email]> wrote:
I was contacted last week by Don Hollander, General Manager of the Asia Pacific Top Level Domain Association, who is trying to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world, and looking for support.

See the attached PDF (from him) outlining what are the barriers to the effective use of IDN TLDs and who can help address these issues.

He's hoping to create a community of interested stakeholders. He expects this community to include ICANN, many ccTLDs, ISOC, and hopefully commercial developers. He is also looking to set up some opportunities to meet and discuss how to move things forward.

If you are interested in getting involved, please raise your voice.

Don says "There is a HUGE population with interest in this - but it is not really the current 2Billion, but the next 2 Billion - those who aren’t yet connected."

RI
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Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

"André (小山) Schappo"
In reply to this post by r12a
① Is this document available online? I have looked round http://aptld.org but cannot find it.

② There are indeed barriers to the effective, real world use of IDNs. A fundamental problem is that IDNs, in general, are not properly catered for and not properly integrated into systems. One reason often quoted for treating IDNs differently is "Security". Well, I posit that any IDN security issues pale in comparison to the ubiquitous "… for further information please click here."

Here are some examples from Social Media:

Twitter

If the Unicode form is entered —

#test  http://北大.中国

It is not recognised as a Domain Name & not displayed as clickable link

If the punycode form is entered —

#test http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s

It is now recognised as a Domain Name and displayed as a clickable link but displayed as punycode instead of Unicode

Sina Weibo

Same results —
#test# http://北大.中国
#test# http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s

There is also the related issue of having to Percent Encode the Unicode pathname components of a URL.

③ In my experience, another fundamental problem is the lack of IT Internationalization teaching in Schools and Universities. Certainly in England, IT Internationalisation has not yet become an accepted part of the curriculum. We need to produce students that have an appreciation/understanding of IT Internationalisation in order to, amongst other goals, properly integrate IDNs into systems/apps/websites …etc…

For several years I have been teaching a module entitled "International Computing" which covers several aspects of IT i18n. One of the topics I cover is IDNs :) And I am keeping my students up to date with the idn new gTLDs as they are delegated to DNS Root :)

During my years teaching this module I have found few students (regardless of which country they come from) with even a basic appreciation of IT Internationalization because it is a topic that was never discussed/raised in their prior studies.

So, any initiative in "to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world" should get Universities onboard and encourage Universities/Schools to teach "IT Internationalization"

André
http://schappo.blogspot.co.uk

On 4 Mar 2014, at 12:14, Richard Ishida wrote:

I was contacted last week by Don Hollander, General Manager of the Asia Pacific Top Level Domain Association, who is trying to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world, and looking for support.

See the attached PDF (from him) outlining what are the barriers to the effective use of IDN TLDs and who can help address these issues.

He's hoping to create a community of interested stakeholders. He expects this community to include ICANN, many ccTLDs, ISOC, and hopefully commercial developers. He is also looking to set up some opportunities to meet and discuss how to move things forward.

If you are interested in getting involved, please raise your voice.

Don says "There is a HUGE population with interest in this - but it is not really the current 2Billion, but the next 2 Billion - those who aren’t yet connected."

RI
<Addressing the issue of Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs-1.pdf>


马馬骉驫马馬骉驫马馬骉驫马馬骉驫
http://twitter.com/andreschappo
http://schappo.blogspot.co.uk
http://weibo.com/andreschappo
http://blog.sina.com.cn/andreschappo



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Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

Asmus Freytag (c)
On 3/4/2014 7:50 AM, Andre Schappo wrote:
① Is this document available online? I have looked round http://aptld.org but cannot find it.

② There are indeed barriers to the effective, real world use of IDNs. A fundamental problem is that IDNs, in general, are not properly catered for and not properly integrated into systems. One reason often quoted for treating IDNs differently is "Security". Well, I posit that any IDN security issues pale in comparison to the ubiquitous "… for further information please click here."

==> example shows as clickable link in Thunderbird and is opened by Firefox. So that level works.

==> example links correctly (thumbnail shows) when entered in to FB (on firefox). So that one works.

Here are some examples from Social Media:

Twitter

If the Unicode form is entered —

#test  http://北大.中国

It is not recognised as a Domain Name & not displayed as clickable link

If the punycode form is entered —

#test http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s

It is now recognised as a Domain Name and displayed as a clickable link but displayed as punycode instead of Unicode

Sina Weibo

Same results —
#test# http://北大.中国
#test# http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s

There is also the related issue of having to Percent Encode the Unicode pathname components of a URL.

③ In my experience, another fundamental problem is the lack of IT Internationalization teaching in Schools and Universities. Certainly in England, IT Internationalisation has not yet become an accepted part of the curriculum. We need to produce students that have an appreciation/understanding of IT Internationalisation in order to, amongst other goals, properly integrate IDNs into systems/apps/websites …etc…

For several years I have been teaching a module entitled "International Computing" which covers several aspects of IT i18n. One of the topics I cover is IDNs :) And I am keeping my students up to date with the idn new gTLDs as they are delegated to DNS Root :)

During my years teaching this module I have found few students (regardless of which country they come from) with even a basic appreciation of IT Internationalization because it is a topic that was never discussed/raised in their prior studies.

this correlates with my observations about project plans. I noticed over the years that in the table of contents or summary bullets the same two line items battle for the last two slots: internationalization and "accessibility". (Have not seen any real counter example, except perhaps if the "product" itself was something international, like IDN). I find the way that association implies that international users are somewhat disabled an interesting insight...


So, any initiative in "to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world" should get Universities onboard and encourage Universities/Schools to teach "IT Internationalization"

André
http://schappo.blogspot.co.uk

On 4 Mar 2014, at 12:14, Richard Ishida wrote:

I was contacted last week by Don Hollander, General Manager of the Asia Pacific Top Level Domain Association, who is trying to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world, and looking for support.

See the attached PDF (from him) outlining what are the barriers to the effective use of IDN TLDs and who can help address these issues.

He's hoping to create a community of interested stakeholders. He expects this community to include ICANN, many ccTLDs, ISOC, and hopefully commercial developers. He is also looking to set up some opportunities to meet and discuss how to move things forward.

If you are interested in getting involved, please raise your voice.

Don says "There is a HUGE population with interest in this - but it is not really the current 2Billion, but the next 2 Billion - those who aren’t yet connected."

RI
<Addressing the issue of Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs-1.pdf>




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Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

Asmus Freytag (c)
In reply to this post by r12a
On 3/4/2014 4:29 AM, Richard Ishida wrote:
> This EURid-UNESCO World report on Internationalised Domain Names
> deployment 2012 may also be of interest.
>
> http://www.icann.org/en/resources/idn/eurid-unesco-deployment-08nov12-en.pdf 
>
>
> RI
>
>
As may be this announcement from ICANN

http://www.icann.org/en/news/announcements/announcement-2-03mar14-en.htm

A./


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RE: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

masinter
In reply to this post by "André (小山) Schappo"

there’s a gap between IDN and URI in that IRI -> URI would prefer to use the %xx percent-hex URL encoding in general.

 

What would be preferable would be to insure that DNS requests for %xx encoded names is an acceptable alternative to punycode.

 

 

From: Andre Schappo [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 3:51 PM
To: www International
Cc: Don Hollander; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

 

Is this document available online? I have looked round http://aptld.org but cannot find it.

There are indeed barriers to the effective, real world use of IDNs. A fundamental problem is that IDNs, in general, are not properly catered for and not properly integrated into systems. One reason often quoted for treating IDNs differently is "Security". Well, I posit that any IDN security issues pale in comparison to the ubiquitous "… for further information please click here."

Here are some examples from Social Media:

Twitter

If the Unicode form is entered —

#test  http://北大.中国

It is not recognised as a Domain Name & not displayed as clickable link

If the punycode form is entered —

#test http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s

It is now recognised as a Domain Name and displayed as a clickable link but displayed as punycode instead of Unicode

Sina Weibo

Same results —
#test# http://北大.中国
#test# http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s

There is also the related issue of having to Percent Encode the Unicode pathname components of a URL.

In my experience, another fundamental problem is the lack of IT Internationalization teaching in Schools and Universities. Certainly in England, IT Internationalisation has not yet become an accepted part of the curriculum. We need to produce students that have an appreciation/understanding of IT Internationalisation in order to, amongst other goals, properly integrate IDNs into systems/apps/websites …etc…

For several years I have been teaching a module entitled "International Computing" which covers several aspects of IT i18n. One of the topics I cover is IDNs :) And I am keeping my students up to date with the idn new gTLDs as they are delegated to DNS Root :)

During my years teaching this module I have found few students (regardless of which country they come from) with even a basic appreciation of IT Internationalization because it is a topic that was never discussed/raised in their prior studies.

So, any initiative in "to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world" should get Universities onboard and encourage Universities/Schools to teach "IT Internationalization"

André
http://schappo.blogspot.co.uk

 

On 4 Mar 2014, at 12:14, Richard Ishida wrote:



I was contacted last week by Don Hollander, General Manager of the Asia Pacific Top Level Domain Association, who is trying to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world, and looking for support.

See the attached PDF (from him) outlining what are the barriers to the effective use of IDN TLDs and who can help address these issues.

He's hoping to create a community of interested stakeholders. He expects this community to include ICANN, many ccTLDs, ISOC, and hopefully commercial developers. He is also looking to set up some opportunities to meet and discuss how to move things forward.

If you are interested in getting involved, please raise your voice.

Don says "There is a HUGE population with interest in this - but it is not really the current 2Billion, but the next 2 Billion - those who aren’t yet connected."

RI
<Addressing the issue of Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs-1.pdf>

 

 

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Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

Mark Davis ☕
If you mean having the DNS system natively accept %xx for domain labels as well as Punycode, I suspect that that ship has long since sailed. (That was one of the options discussed, but was turned down because of the length limitations.)

If on the other hand, you mean that client software should accept %xx notation as well as straight Unicode and punycode, that is another story. That can be handled by a client-side mapping, permitted by either IDNA2008 or UTS46. (And I agree that it's a good idea.)

With that, I could type in my address bar any of:
And they'd all resolve to xn--idna--x-l6c.blogspot.com.
  1. I just checked on Chrome, and all of these work.
  2. Firefox is a bit odd: if I type in the #3, it fails; *but* it converts it in the address bar, so a subsequent enter goes to the right place. #4/#5 just fail.
  3. Don't know about other browsers.



— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —


On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Larry Masinter <[hidden email]> wrote:

there’s a gap between IDN and URI in that IRI -> URI would prefer to use the %xx percent-hex URL encoding in general.

 

What would be preferable would be to insure that DNS requests for %xx encoded names is an acceptable alternative to punycode.

 

 

From: Andre Schappo [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 3:51 PM
To: www International
Cc: Don Hollander; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

 

Is this document available online? I have looked round http://aptld.org but cannot find it.

There are indeed barriers to the effective, real world use of IDNs. A fundamental problem is that IDNs, in general, are not properly catered for and not properly integrated into systems. One reason often quoted for treating IDNs differently is "Security". Well, I posit that any IDN security issues pale in comparison to the ubiquitous "… for further information please click here."

Here are some examples from Social Media:

Twitter

If the Unicode form is entered —

#test  http://北大.中国

It is not recognised as a Domain Name & not displayed as clickable link

If the punycode form is entered —

#test http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s

It is now recognised as a Domain Name and displayed as a clickable link but displayed as punycode instead of Unicode

Sina Weibo

Same results —
#test# http://北大.中国
#test# http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s

There is also the related issue of having to Percent Encode the Unicode pathname components of a URL.

In my experience, another fundamental problem is the lack of IT Internationalization teaching in Schools and Universities. Certainly in England, IT Internationalisation has not yet become an accepted part of the curriculum. We need to produce students that have an appreciation/understanding of IT Internationalisation in order to, amongst other goals, properly integrate IDNs into systems/apps/websites …etc…

For several years I have been teaching a module entitled "International Computing" which covers several aspects of IT i18n. One of the topics I cover is IDNs :) And I am keeping my students up to date with the idn new gTLDs as they are delegated to DNS Root :)

During my years teaching this module I have found few students (regardless of which country they come from) with even a basic appreciation of IT Internationalization because it is a topic that was never discussed/raised in their prior studies.

So, any initiative in "to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world" should get Universities onboard and encourage Universities/Schools to teach "IT Internationalization"

André
http://schappo.blogspot.co.uk

 

On 4 Mar 2014, at 12:14, Richard Ishida wrote:



I was contacted last week by Don Hollander, General Manager of the Asia Pacific Top Level Domain Association, who is trying to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world, and looking for support.

See the attached PDF (from him) outlining what are the barriers to the effective use of IDN TLDs and who can help address these issues.

He's hoping to create a community of interested stakeholders. He expects this community to include ICANN, many ccTLDs, ISOC, and hopefully commercial developers. He is also looking to set up some opportunities to meet and discuss how to move things forward.

If you are interested in getting involved, please raise your voice.

Don says "There is a HUGE population with interest in this - but it is not really the current 2Billion, but the next 2 Billion - those who aren’t yet connected."

RI
<Addressing the issue of Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs-1.pdf>

 

 


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RE: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

masinter

The handling of %xx-encoded domain names in DNS servers would be a fallback for use in legacy systems that are not IDN-aware.

 

So the length limit argument doesn’t carry a lot of weight – it is strictly a transitional deployment enhancement for working around legacy components which extract domain names from URIs but rcan only process 7-bit URIs and not 8-bit IRIs.

 

You can deploy IDNs when all of  the applications you care about will work for the users you care about for the DNS names you want to use.

 

Components that handle IRIs directly and pull out domain names for future processing shouldn’t ever need the %xx encoding, although decoding it is also a good idea.

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mark Davis ?
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 2:16 PM
To: Larry Masinter
Cc: Andre Schappo; www International; Don Hollander; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

 

If you mean having the DNS system natively accept %xx for domain labels as well as Punycode, I suspect that that ship has long since sailed. (That was one of the options discussed, but was turned down because of the length limitations.)

 

If on the other hand, you mean that client software should accept %xx notation as well as straight Unicode and punycode, that is another story. That can be handled by a client-side mapping, permitted by either IDNA2008 or UTS46. (And I agree that it's a good idea.)

 

With that, I could type in my address bar any of:

And they'd all resolve to xn--idna--x-l6c.blogspot.com.

  1. I just checked on Chrome, and all of these work.
  2. Firefox is a bit odd: if I type in the #3, it fails; *but* it converts it in the address bar, so a subsequent enter goes to the right place. #4/#5 just fail.
  3. Don't know about other browsers.


 

 

— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —

 

On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Larry Masinter <[hidden email]> wrote:

there’s a gap between IDN and URI in that IRI -> URI would prefer to use the %xx percent-hex URL encoding in general.

 

What would be preferable would be to insure that DNS requests for %xx encoded names is an acceptable alternative to punycode.

 

 

From: Andre Schappo [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 3:51 PM
To: www International
Cc: Don Hollander; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

 

Is this document available online? I have looked round http://aptld.org but cannot find it.

There are indeed barriers to the effective, real world use of IDNs. A fundamental problem is that IDNs, in general, are not properly catered for and not properly integrated into systems. One reason often quoted for treating IDNs differently is "Security". Well, I posit that any IDN security issues pale in comparison to the ubiquitous "… for further information please click here."

Here are some examples from Social Media:

Twitter

If the Unicode form is entered —

#test  http://北大.中国

It is not recognised as a Domain Name & not displayed as clickable link

If the punycode form is entered —

#test http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s

It is now recognised as a Domain Name and displayed as a clickable link but displayed as punycode instead of Unicode

Sina Weibo

Same results —
#test# http://北大.中国
#test# http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s

There is also the related issue of having to Percent Encode the Unicode pathname components of a URL.

In my experience, another fundamental problem is the lack of IT Internationalization teaching in Schools and Universities. Certainly in England, IT Internationalisation has not yet become an accepted part of the curriculum. We need to produce students that have an appreciation/understanding of IT Internationalisation in order to, amongst other goals, properly integrate IDNs into systems/apps/websites …etc…

For several years I have been teaching a module entitled "International Computing" which covers several aspects of IT i18n. One of the topics I cover is IDNs :) And I am keeping my students up to date with the idn new gTLDs as they are delegated to DNS Root :)

During my years teaching this module I have found few students (regardless of which country they come from) with even a basic appreciation of IT Internationalization because it is a topic that was never discussed/raised in their prior studies.

So, any initiative in "to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world" should get Universities onboard and encourage Universities/Schools to teach "IT Internationalization"

André
http://schappo.blogspot.co.uk

 

On 4 Mar 2014, at 12:14, Richard Ishida wrote:

 

I was contacted last week by Don Hollander, General Manager of the Asia Pacific Top Level Domain Association, who is trying to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world, and looking for support.

See the attached PDF (from him) outlining what are the barriers to the effective use of IDN TLDs and who can help address these issues.

He's hoping to create a community of interested stakeholders. He expects this community to include ICANN, many ccTLDs, ISOC, and hopefully commercial developers. He is also looking to set up some opportunities to meet and discuss how to move things forward.

If you are interested in getting involved, please raise your voice.

Don says "There is a HUGE population with interest in this - but it is not really the current 2Billion, but the next 2 Billion - those who aren’t yet connected."

RI
<Addressing the issue of Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs-1.pdf>

 

 

 

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Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

Mark Davis ☕
If you could get that to happen in all DNS servers, great. 

Otherwise, I think it would be productive to have clear guidelines for clients.



— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —


On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Larry Masinter <[hidden email]> wrote:

The handling of %xx-encoded domain names in DNS servers would be a fallback for use in legacy systems that are not IDN-aware.

 

So the length limit argument doesn’t carry a lot of weight – it is strictly a transitional deployment enhancement for working around legacy components which extract domain names from URIs but rcan only process 7-bit URIs and not 8-bit IRIs.

 

You can deploy IDNs when all of  the applications you care about will work for the users you care about for the DNS names you want to use.

 

Components that handle IRIs directly and pull out domain names for future processing shouldn’t ever need the %xx encoding, although decoding it is also a good idea.

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mark Davis ?
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 2:16 PM
To: Larry Masinter
Cc: Andre Schappo; www International; Don Hollander; [hidden email]


Subject: Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

 

If you mean having the DNS system natively accept %xx for domain labels as well as Punycode, I suspect that that ship has long since sailed. (That was one of the options discussed, but was turned down because of the length limitations.)

 

If on the other hand, you mean that client software should accept %xx notation as well as straight Unicode and punycode, that is another story. That can be handled by a client-side mapping, permitted by either IDNA2008 or UTS46. (And I agree that it's a good idea.)

 

With that, I could type in my address bar any of:

And they'd all resolve to xn--idna--x-l6c.blogspot.com.

  1. I just checked on Chrome, and all of these work.
  2. Firefox is a bit odd: if I type in the #3, it fails; *but* it converts it in the address bar, so a subsequent enter goes to the right place. #4/#5 just fail.
  3. Don't know about other browsers.


 

 

— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —

 

On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Larry Masinter <[hidden email]> wrote:

there’s a gap between IDN and URI in that IRI -> URI would prefer to use the %xx percent-hex URL encoding in general.

 

What would be preferable would be to insure that DNS requests for %xx encoded names is an acceptable alternative to punycode.

 

 

From: Andre Schappo [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 3:51 PM
To: www International
Cc: Don Hollander; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

 

Is this document available online? I have looked round http://aptld.org but cannot find it.

There are indeed barriers to the effective, real world use of IDNs. A fundamental problem is that IDNs, in general, are not properly catered for and not properly integrated into systems. One reason often quoted for treating IDNs differently is "Security". Well, I posit that any IDN security issues pale in comparison to the ubiquitous "… for further information please click here."

Here are some examples from Social Media:

Twitter

If the Unicode form is entered —

#test  http://北大.中国

It is not recognised as a Domain Name & not displayed as clickable link

If the punycode form is entered —

#test http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s

It is now recognised as a Domain Name and displayed as a clickable link but displayed as punycode instead of Unicode

Sina Weibo

Same results —
#test# http://北大.中国
#test# http://xn--djry4l.xn--fiqs8s

There is also the related issue of having to Percent Encode the Unicode pathname components of a URL.

In my experience, another fundamental problem is the lack of IT Internationalization teaching in Schools and Universities. Certainly in England, IT Internationalisation has not yet become an accepted part of the curriculum. We need to produce students that have an appreciation/understanding of IT Internationalisation in order to, amongst other goals, properly integrate IDNs into systems/apps/websites …etc…

For several years I have been teaching a module entitled "International Computing" which covers several aspects of IT i18n. One of the topics I cover is IDNs :) And I am keeping my students up to date with the idn new gTLDs as they are delegated to DNS Root :)

During my years teaching this module I have found few students (regardless of which country they come from) with even a basic appreciation of IT Internationalization because it is a topic that was never discussed/raised in their prior studies.

So, any initiative in "to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world" should get Universities onboard and encourage Universities/Schools to teach "IT Internationalization"

André
http://schappo.blogspot.co.uk

 

On 4 Mar 2014, at 12:14, Richard Ishida wrote:

 

I was contacted last week by Don Hollander, General Manager of the Asia Pacific Top Level Domain Association, who is trying to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world, and looking for support.

See the attached PDF (from him) outlining what are the barriers to the effective use of IDN TLDs and who can help address these issues.

He's hoping to create a community of interested stakeholders. He expects this community to include ICANN, many ccTLDs, ISOC, and hopefully commercial developers. He is also looking to set up some opportunities to meet and discuss how to move things forward.

If you are interested in getting involved, please raise your voice.

Don says "There is a HUGE population with interest in this - but it is not really the current 2Billion, but the next 2 Billion - those who aren’t yet connected."

RI
<Addressing the issue of Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs-1.pdf>

 

 

 


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Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

Mark Davis ☕
In reply to this post by Mark Davis ☕
Sorry about that. I was using my phone (on a trip), and it has a swiping keyboard. I didn't notice that what I meant to be "specific" turned out as "associated" before sending. So the corrected text would be:

This list is not specific enough to be actionable. One would have to have an associated document with precise <test cases, desired results, and actual results>.


Here is an example from the attached document:

"Web Addresses and links don’t maintain their IDN display and sometimes don’t resolve in browsers. 
Browser Developers
- Firefox from Mozilla 
- Chrome from Google 
- Safari from Apple 
- Internet Explorer from Microsoft 
- Opera"

On the face of it, that row is clearly false. I can certainly type IDNs into Chrome or Firefox, and they resolve and work, with the caveat that *by design*, browsers often show punycode if the URL looks suspicious in some way.

I am reminded of a bug report I got at Apple years ago: 

"Laser printer doesn't work." No details, no hint as to context or environment, or what went wrong.



— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —


On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Mark Davis ☕ <[hidden email]> wrote:

This list is not specific enough to be actionable. One would have to have am asphyxiated document with precise <test cases, desired results, and actual results>.

{phone}

On Mar 4, 2014 4:15 PM, "Richard Ishida" <[hidden email]> wrote:
I was contacted last week by Don Hollander, General Manager of the Asia Pacific Top Level Domain Association, who is trying to improve the use of IDN TLDs in the real world, and looking for support.

See the attached PDF (from him) outlining what are the barriers to the effective use of IDN TLDs and who can help address these issues.

He's hoping to create a community of interested stakeholders. He expects this community to include ICANN, many ccTLDs, ISOC, and hopefully commercial developers. He is also looking to set up some opportunities to meet and discuss how to move things forward.

If you are interested in getting involved, please raise your voice.

Don says "There is a HUGE population with interest in this - but it is not really the current 2Billion, but the next 2 Billion - those who aren’t yet connected."

RI

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RE: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

Shawn Steele
In reply to this post by Mark Davis ☕

If something were to happen “in all DNS servers”, I’d way prefer to just make them smart enough to understand UTF-8.

 

-Shawn

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mark Davis ?
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 7:10 AM
To: Larry Masinter
Cc: Andre Schappo; www International; Don Hollander; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

 

If you could get that to happen in all DNS servers, great. 

 

Otherwise, I think it would be productive to have clear guidelines for clients.


 

 

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Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs

Martin J. Dürst
On 2014/03/06 03:50, Shawn Steele wrote:
> If something were to happen “in all DNS servers”, I’d way prefer to just make them smart enough to understand UTF-8.

Very well put, but unfortunately as we all know not very realistic.

Not only the IRI spec, but also the URI spec (RFC 3986) allows %hh in
domain names. Allowing this in other interfaces and APIs (but not in
the DNS protocol itself) is definitely a good idea.

I think that both for this specific point of %hh, as well as for more
general issues, working on tests (Mark started it, although he didn't
use the word test explicitly) is the best thing to do. I think we should
just invite Dave Hollander to contribute tests to the W3C test
collection, at least where those are Web-related.

Regards,   Martin.

> -Shawn
>
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mark Davis ?
> Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 7:10 AM
> To: Larry Masinter
> Cc: Andre Schappo; www International; Don Hollander; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Universal Acceptance of IDN TLDs
>
> If you could get that to happen in all DNS servers, great.
>
> Otherwise, I think it would be productive to have clear guidelines for clients.
>
>
> Mark<https://google.com/+MarkDavis>
>