Re: XML Base PER--what is a URI

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Re: XML Base PER--what is a URI

Grosso, Paul

Thank you for your comments at
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2008AprJun/
0011
on the XML Base Second Edition PER.

Regarding:

> It is not clear from the spec about what is
> permitted to be considered a URI in a host
> language. The spec refers to URIs everywhere,
> without exactly specifying what qualifies. In
> particular we hope that XML Base may be used at
> any point some value is interpreted as a relative
> URI/IRI, even if that value isn't a URI per se.

The XML Core WG has reviewed this comment and decided not
to make any change to XML Base Second Edition with the
following explanation:

It would not be right for XML Base to define what strings
should be considered URIs.  That is entirely up to the XML
vocabulary in question.  This spec addresses the question:
*given* a relative URI, how is it resolved?  It thus fills
the role described in RFC 3986 section 5.1.1: it specifies
how a base URI can be embedded in XML content.


See also
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2008JulSep/
0000
and
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2008JulSep/
0006
for previous reponses.


We hope to transition XML Base to Recommendation within
the next few weeks.  Please let us know if you accept
our disposition of this comment as soon as feasible.
If we have not heard by September 22, we will assume
you have no objection to our resolution.

Paul Grosso
for the XML Core WG

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Re: XML Base PER--what is a URI

Steven Pemberton-3

Without having discussed this response with the group yet (we shall this  
afternoon), wouldn't the text below be exactly what the spec needs?

   It would not be right for XML Base to define what strings
   should be considered URIs.  That is entirely up to the XML
   vocabulary in question.  This spec addresses the question:
   *given* a relative URI, how is it resolved?

This actually answers the question our comment asked, and the spec did not  
make that clear.

Best wishes,

Steven Pemberton

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:31:25 +0200, Grosso, Paul <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you for your comments at
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2008AprJun/
> 0011
> on the XML Base Second Edition PER.
>
> Regarding:
>
>> It is not clear from the spec about what is
>> permitted to be considered a URI in a host
>> language. The spec refers to URIs everywhere,
>> without exactly specifying what qualifies. In
>> particular we hope that XML Base may be used at
>> any point some value is interpreted as a relative
>> URI/IRI, even if that value isn't a URI per se.
>
> The XML Core WG has reviewed this comment and decided not
> to make any change to XML Base Second Edition with the
> following explanation:
>
> It would not be right for XML Base to define what strings
> should be considered URIs.  That is entirely up to the XML
> vocabulary in question.  This spec addresses the question:
> *given* a relative URI, how is it resolved?  It thus fills
> the role described in RFC 3986 section 5.1.1: it specifies
> how a base URI can be embedded in XML content.
>
>
> See also
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2008JulSep/
> 0000
> and
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2008JulSep/
> 0006
> for previous reponses.
>
>
> We hope to transition XML Base to Recommendation within
> the next few weeks.  Please let us know if you accept
> our disposition of this comment as soon as feasible.
> If we have not heard by September 22, we will assume
> you have no objection to our resolution.
>
> Paul Grosso
> for the XML Core WG



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Re: XML Base PER--what is a URI

Richard Tobin-2

>Without having discussed this response with the group yet (we shall this  
>afternoon), wouldn't the text below be exactly what the spec needs?
>
>   It would not be right for XML Base to define what strings
>   should be considered URIs.  That is entirely up to the XML
>   vocabulary in question.  This spec addresses the question:
>   *given* a relative URI, how is it resolved?

I have added a paragraph to the introduction (slightly less informally
phrased):

  This specification does not attempt to specify which strings in a
  document are considered URIs. That is the responsibility of each XML
  vocabulary. The question addressed by this specification is: given a
  relative URI in an XML document, what base URI is it resolved against?

Please let us know whether you find this satisfactory.

-- Richard

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.


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RE: XML Base PER--what is a URI

Hugh Wallis

Why would the WG not adopt the W3C's official position on what constitutes a
URI [1] ? (which references RFC 3986 [2] )

"That is the responsibility of each XML vocabulary." seems to leave open too
much room for interpretation.

At minimum I would think the specification should include a reference to the
W3C's offcial position.

Hugh

[1] http://www.w3.org/News/2005#item13 

[2] http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Richard Tobin
Sent: September 10, 2008 12:41 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Steven Pemberton; [hidden email]; Paul Grosso
Subject: Re: XML Base PER--what is a URI


>Without having discussed this response with the group yet (we shall
>this afternoon), wouldn't the text below be exactly what the spec needs?
>
>   It would not be right for XML Base to define what strings
>   should be considered URIs.  That is entirely up to the XML
>   vocabulary in question.  This spec addresses the question:
>   *given* a relative URI, how is it resolved?

I have added a paragraph to the introduction (slightly less informally
phrased):

  This specification does not attempt to specify which strings in a
  document are considered URIs. That is the responsibility of each XML
  vocabulary. The question addressed by this specification is: given a
  relative URI in an XML document, what base URI is it resolved against?

Please let us know whether you find this satisfactory.

-- Richard

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland,
with registration number SC005336.





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RE: XML Base PER--what is a URI

Richard Tobin-2
In reply to this post by Grosso, Paul

> Why would the WG not adopt the W3C's official position on what constitutes a
> URI [1] ? (which references RFC 3986 [2] )

Oh dear.  I didn't think this was so hard to explain.  This isn't about
the syntax of URIs, it's about whether some string you find in an
XML document is intended to be interpreted as a URI.

In an XSLT stylesheet, given the XPath "document('foo')", "foo" is
interpreted as a URI.  In the XPath "@name = 'foo'", "foo" is not
interpreted as a URI.  The fact that one "foo" is interpreted as a URI
and the other isn't is governed by the XSLT and XPath specs.

-- Richard

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.


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RE: XML Base PER--what is a URI

Hugh Wallis

Got it - sorry to have troubled you

Thanks

Hugh

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Tobin [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: September 10, 2008 3:12 PM
To: Hugh Wallis; 'Richard Tobin'; [hidden email]
Cc: 'Steven Pemberton'; [hidden email]; 'Paul Grosso'
Subject: RE: XML Base PER--what is a URI

> Why would the WG not adopt the W3C's official position on what
> constitutes a URI [1] ? (which references RFC 3986 [2] )

Oh dear.  I didn't think this was so hard to explain.  This isn't about the
syntax of URIs, it's about whether some string you find in an XML document
is intended to be interpreted as a URI.

In an XSLT stylesheet, given the XPath "document('foo')", "foo" is
interpreted as a URI.  In the XPath "@name = 'foo'", "foo" is not
interpreted as a URI.  The fact that one "foo" is interpreted as a URI and
the other isn't is governed by the XSLT and XPath specs.

-- Richard

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland,
with registration number SC005336.




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Re: XML Base PER--what is a URI

Steven Pemberton-3
In reply to this post by Grosso, Paul

Paul,

Many thanks for your reply.

The XHTML2 WG has discussed it.

> It would not be right for XML Base to define what strings
> should be considered URIs.  That is entirely up to the XML
> vocabulary in question.  This spec addresses the question:
> *given* a relative URI, how is it resolved?  It thus fills
> the role described in RFC 3986 section 5.1.1: it specifies
> how a base URI can be embedded in XML content.

This is exactly what we hoped to hear, and weren't able to resolve from  
the spec. We are happy that this is the case, but would be happier if the  
spec made it explicit. We are therefore not asking for a change, just a  
clarification that what this spec refers to as a URI is not necessarily  
syntactically a URI, but whatever the referring spec decides should be  
treated as one.

Best wishes,

Steven Pemberton
For the XHTML2 WG

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:31:25 +0200, Grosso, Paul <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you for your comments at
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2008AprJun/
> 0011
> on the XML Base Second Edition PER.
>
> Regarding:
>
>> It is not clear from the spec about what is
>> permitted to be considered a URI in a host
>> language. The spec refers to URIs everywhere,
>> without exactly specifying what qualifies. In
>> particular we hope that XML Base may be used at
>> any point some value is interpreted as a relative
>> URI/IRI, even if that value isn't a URI per se.
>
> The XML Core WG has reviewed this comment and decided not
> to make any change to XML Base Second Edition with the
> following explanation:
>
> It would not be right for XML Base to define what strings
> should be considered URIs.  That is entirely up to the XML
> vocabulary in question.  This spec addresses the question:
> *given* a relative URI, how is it resolved?  It thus fills
> the role described in RFC 3986 section 5.1.1: it specifies
> how a base URI can be embedded in XML content.
>
>
> See also
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2008JulSep/
> 0000
> and
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2008JulSep/
> 0006
> for previous reponses.
>
>
> We hope to transition XML Base to Recommendation within
> the next few weeks.  Please let us know if you accept
> our disposition of this comment as soon as feasible.
> If we have not heard by September 22, we will assume
> you have no objection to our resolution.
>
> Paul Grosso
> for the XML Core WG



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Re: XML Base PER--what is a URI

Richard Tobin-2

I have added a paragraph as follows:

 This specification does not attempt to specify which text strings in a
 document are to be interpreted as URIs. That is the responsibility of
 each XML vocabulary. The question addressed by this specification is:
 given a relative URI in an XML document, what base URI is it resolved
 against?

I hope this provides the necessary clarification.

-- Richard

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.


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RE: XML Base PER--what is a URI

Grosso, Paul
In reply to this post by Steven Pemberton-3

Steven,

At
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2008OctDec/
0008
Richard indicated that he added a note along the lines you suggest.

Do you now accept our disposition of your comment?

paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Pemberton [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, 2008 November 05 7:22
> To: Grosso, Paul
> Cc: [hidden email]; Henry S. Thompson
> Subject: Re: XML Base PER--what is a URI
>
> Paul,
>
> Many thanks for your reply.
>
> The XHTML2 WG has discussed it.
>
> > It would not be right for XML Base to define what strings
> > should be considered URIs.  That is entirely up to the XML
> > vocabulary in question.  This spec addresses the question:
> > *given* a relative URI, how is it resolved?  It thus fills
> > the role described in RFC 3986 section 5.1.1: it specifies
> > how a base URI can be embedded in XML content.
>
> This is exactly what we hoped to hear, and weren't able to
> resolve from  
> the spec. We are happy that this is the case, but would be
> happier if the  
> spec made it explicit. We are therefore not asking for a
> change, just a  
> clarification that what this spec refers to as a URI is not
> necessarily  
> syntactically a URI, but whatever the referring spec decides
> should be  
> treated as one.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Steven Pemberton
> For the XHTML2 WG
>
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:31:25 +0200, Grosso, Paul
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Thank you for your comments at
> >
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2
> 008AprJun/
> > 0011
> > on the XML Base Second Edition PER.
> >
> > Regarding:
> >
> >> It is not clear from the spec about what is
> >> permitted to be considered a URI in a host
> >> language. The spec refers to URIs everywhere,
> >> without exactly specifying what qualifies. In
> >> particular we hope that XML Base may be used at
> >> any point some value is interpreted as a relative
> >> URI/IRI, even if that value isn't a URI per se.
> >
> > The XML Core WG has reviewed this comment and decided not
> > to make any change to XML Base Second Edition with the
> > following explanation:
> >
> > It would not be right for XML Base to define what strings
> > should be considered URIs.  That is entirely up to the XML
> > vocabulary in question.  This spec addresses the question:
> > *given* a relative URI, how is it resolved?  It thus fills
> > the role described in RFC 3986 section 5.1.1: it specifies
> > how a base URI can be embedded in XML content.
> >
> >
> > See also
> >
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2
> 008JulSep/
> > 0000
> > and
> >
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-xml-linking-comments/2
> 008JulSep/
> > 0006
> > for previous reponses.
> >
> >
> > We hope to transition XML Base to Recommendation within
> > the next few weeks.  Please let us know if you accept
> > our disposition of this comment as soon as feasible.
> > If we have not heard by September 22, we will assume
> > you have no objection to our resolution.
> >
> > Paul Grosso
> > for the XML Core WG
>
>
>

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Re: XML Base PER--what is a URI

Steven Pemberton-3
In reply to this post by Richard Tobin-2

On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:14:32 +0100, Richard Tobin <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> I have added a paragraph as follows:
>
>  This specification does not attempt to specify which text strings in a
>  document are to be interpreted as URIs. That is the responsibility of
>  each XML vocabulary. The question addressed by this specification is:
>  given a relative URI in an XML document, what base URI is it resolved
>  against?
>
> I hope this provides the necessary clarification.
>
> -- Richard

This is exactly what we were looking for. Many thanks, and apologies for  
the delay - for some reason I was sure I had replied already...

Best wishes,

Steven Pemberton
For the XHTML2 WG