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Namespace prefix declarations vs DTDs

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Namespace prefix declarations vs DTDs

Bjoern Hoehrmann
Hi,

  I would like the XML Conformance Test Suite to cover test cases such
as these two documents.

  <!DOCTYPE x [ <!ELEMENT x EMPTY> ]>
  <x xmlns:xml='http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace'/>
 
  <!DOCTYPE x [ <!ELEMENT x EMPTY> ]>
  <x xmlns:foo='http://example.org'/>

The reason for inclusion is that there is confusion as to whether the
documents are valid. My own reading is that both documents are not
valid. The libxml2 tool xmllint regards the first as valid but the
second as invalid. The W3C Markup Validator accepts both as valid.

May I also enquire as to the status of previous submissions, e.g.

  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-testsuite/2005Dec/thread.html#msg1
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-testsuite/2006Sep/0000.html

They also exposed bugs in widely deployed implementations (which in
case of the Opera web browser have not been fixed since), but they do
not appear to be in the latest release. Please let me know if there
is anything I can do to ensure their timely inclusion.

As an aside, the errata of the first edition of Namespaces in XML
got broken in September 2007 and has not been fixed since.

Thanks,
--
Björn Höhrmann · mailto:[hidden email] · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
Am Badedeich 7 · Telefon: +49(0)160/4415681 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de
25899 Dagebüll · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.websitedev.de/ 

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Re: Namespace prefix declarations vs DTDs

Henry S. Thompson
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Bjoern Hoehrmann writes:

>   I would like the XML Conformance Test Suite to cover test cases such
> as these two documents.
>
>   <!DOCTYPE x [ <!ELEMENT x EMPTY> ]>
>   <x xmlns:xml='http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace'/>
>  
>   <!DOCTYPE x [ <!ELEMENT x EMPTY> ]>
>   <x xmlns:foo='http://example.org'/>
>
> The reason for inclusion is that there is confusion as to whether the
> documents are valid. My own reading is that both documents are not
> valid. The libxml2 tool xmllint regards the first as valid but the
> second as invalid. The W3C Markup Validator accepts both as valid.

I agree with your judgement (as does rxp).  Getting them in the test
suite may take a while, see below.

> May I also enquire as to the status of previous submissions, e.g.
>
>   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-testsuite/2005Dec/thread.html#msg1

I believe the relevant spec. changes were made in subsequent
editions.  I haven't checked the status of the proposed tests.

>   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-testsuite/2006Sep/0000.html

Hmmm.  No discussion.  I'll see what I can do.

> Please let me know if there is anything I can do to ensure their
> timely inclusion.

The only member of the Core WG who regularly maintained the Test Suite
has taken a leave for personal reasons.  W3C staff time constraints
doesn't permit me to spend much time on the test suite, I'm sorry.

Net conclusion: what you can do to help, which would be _very_
welcome, is to join the XML Core WG and take over maintenance of the
Test Suite.

> As an aside, the errata of the first edition of Namespaces in XML
> got broken in September 2007 and has not been fixed since.

Hmm.  The reason for this is obscure == I can't immediately figure out
how to fix it.  I'll get back to you.

ht
- --
       Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh
                         Half-time member of W3C Team
      10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440
                Fax: (44) 131 651-1426, e-mail: [hidden email]
                       URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/
[mail really from me _always_ has this .sig -- mail without it is forged spam]
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Re: Namespace prefix declarations vs DTDs

Henry S. Thompson
In reply to this post by Bjoern Hoehrmann
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Bjoern Hoehrmann writes:

> As an aside, the errata of the first edition of Namespaces in XML
> got broken in September 2007 and has not been fixed since.

Obscure Apache configuration glitch, now (maybe) fixed -- please check
and report.

Thanks,

ht
- --
       Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh
                         Half-time member of W3C Team
      10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440
                Fax: (44) 131 651-1426, e-mail: [hidden email]
                       URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/
[mail really from me _always_ has this .sig -- mail without it is forged spam]
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Re: Namespace prefix declarations vs DTDs

Bjoern Hoehrmann
In reply to this post by Henry S. Thompson
* Henry S. Thompson wrote:
>> May I also enquire as to the status of previous submissions, e.g.
>>
>>   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-testsuite/2005Dec/thread.html#msg1
>
>I believe the relevant spec. changes were made in subsequent
>editions.  I haven't checked the status of the proposed tests.

Indeed, the latest Recommendation appears to contain the relevant
updates. It seems the list of changes and tests are out of date;
looking at the sources in CVS,

  <xmlns:foo/> is covered by NE13c.xml
  <foo xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/xmlns/'/> by NE13b.xml
  <foo xmlns='http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace'/> by NE13a.xml

There is no test for any of these

  <xml:foo/>
  <?xml version="1.1"?><foo xmlns:xmlns=""/>
  <?xml version="1.1"?><foo xmlns:xml=""/>

>Net conclusion: what you can do to help, which would be _very_
>welcome, is to join the XML Core WG and take over maintenance of the
>Test Suite.

I would offer to make a patch and commit it myself after someone has
reviewed it, but I'm afraid the structure of the test suite is quite
confusing. With some instructions, ala, make a new directory $name,
put the files in there, make a $name.xml file per testcases.dtd, put
it there aswell, and add $name.xml to xmlconf.xml, and ignore all the
other files, that would help a lot.

>Hmm.  The reason for this is obscure == I can't immediately figure out
>how to fix it.  I'll get back to you.

This has been fixed now, thanks.
--
Björn Höhrmann · mailto:[hidden email] · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
Am Badedeich 7 · Telefon: +49(0)160/4415681 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de
25899 Dagebüll · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.websitedev.de/ 

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Re: Namespace prefix declarations vs DTDs

Henry S. Thompson
In reply to this post by Bjoern Hoehrmann
Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote [4 years ago!]:

>   I would like the XML Conformance Test Suite to cover test cases such
> as these two documents.
>
>   <!DOCTYPE x [ <!ELEMENT x EMPTY> ]>
>   <x xmlns:xml='http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace'/>
>  
>   <!DOCTYPE x [ <!ELEMENT x EMPTY> ]>
>   <x xmlns:foo='http://example.org'/>
>
> The reason for inclusion is that there is confusion as to whether the
> documents are valid. My own reading is that both documents are not
> valid. The libxml2 tool xmllint regards the first as valid but the
> second as invalid. The W3C Markup Validator accepts both as valid.

Thanks -- I've added these in CVS, and they will appear in the next release.

> May I also enquire as to the status of previous submissions, e.g.
>
>   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-testsuite/2005Dec/thread.html#msg1
>   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-testsuite/2006Sep/0000.html

Per recent emails, those are in now as well.

ht
--
       Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh
      10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440
                Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: [hidden email]
                       URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/
 [mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it is forged spam]

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