Minutes of 2010-01-14

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Minutes of 2010-01-14

Ivan Herman-2
... are at


text version below.




      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                       RDFa in XHTML Task Force

14 Jan 2010

   Previous: [3]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html

   See also: [4]IRC log

      [4] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-rdfa-irc


          Manu Sporny, Ivan Herman, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton,
          Mark Birbeck

          Ben Adida

          Manu Sporny

          Shane McCarron


     * [5]Topics
         1. [6]Action Items
         2. [7]Chartering process update
         3. [8]RDFa Working Group Authoring Tools
         4. [9]HTML RDFa heartbeat draft
         5. [10]RDFa Vocabularies
     * [11]Summary of Action Items

Action Items


     [12] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html

   <scribe> ACTION:  Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via
   mailing list [recorded
   in [13]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
   [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [DONE]

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08
     [14] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action02

   <scribe> ACTION:  Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external
   vocabulary documents. [recorded
   in [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
   [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action03] [DONE]

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08
     [16] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action03


     [17] http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa-vocab-20100111.html

   <scribe> ACTION:  Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about
   TC 142. [recorded
   in [18]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
   [recorded in

     [18] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
     [19] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action04

   <scribe> ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix
   in [20]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
   [recorded in

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06
     [21] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action05

   <scribe> ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external
   vocabulary documents [recorded
   in [22]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]on07!
   [recorded in

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07
     [23] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action06

Chartering process update

   ivan: nothing new to report
   ... deadline is coming up. Need to contact a few people before then
   so we ensure people who expressed interest have a chance to sign up.

RDFa Working Group Authoring Tools

   manu: some members have been kicking ideas around privately. looking
   at reSpec and CVS + something external for diffs

   ...reSpec worked reasonably well for doing the Vocabulary document

   ivan: other tool sets seem to require installing lots of stuff -
   high barrier to entry

   markbirbeck: original thought was to use Ant so it was possible to
   run things on different platforms... but that doesn't seem
   compatible with the model.

   ivan: need to ensure that the references it produces are up to date

   Steven_: only fear is how we are going to produce diff-marked
   versions. We need some way to produce these.

   <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask if there is room to have it
   produce documents annotated with RDFa?

   ShaneM: are you authoring in HTML or wysiwyg?

   ivan: HTML(5).
   ... any RDFa that is put into the code would just stay there.

   ShaneM: can we have it produce XHTML? Its a permitted format.

   manu: seems like it would be a simple change.

   ShaneM: CVS has the ability to run scripts - so we can have diffs
   generated automatically as part of the checkin

   manu: we don't have a solution for PDF or for multi-page documents.
   ... a multi-page document is a document that is split into sections
   with a master table of contents

   ivan: not convinced we need this because our specs are relatively

   manu: having both versions is nice. Not necessarily a high priority.

   ShaneM: W3C already uses html2ps for PDF generation, so... if we can
   identify the conventions that make that work it should be fine.

   <manu> [24]http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html

     [24] http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa.html

   <scribe> ACTION: ShaneM to identify the requirements for html2ps and
   see about getting reSpec to support them. [recorded in

HTML RDFa heartbeat draft



   manu: specified rules for maintaining namespaces in the generated
   ... also added informative sections describing how infoset based and
   dom 2 based processors work





   feedback so far is fairly positive. no one is attempting to block
   publication at this time.

   ShaneM: not excited about codifying implementation algorithms

   manu: testing people from user agent vendors seem excited about
   understanding the implementation methodology to limit the
   possibility of incompatibilities in the future.

   markbirbeck: likes it.

RDFa Vocabularies


     [29] http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/specs/rdfa-vocab-20100111.html

   manu: Discussion about CORS

   uncertain if CORS is actually implemented in major browsers.

   ivan: if CORS is not available, this vocab proposal seems hard to

   markbirbeck: had a hack for Safari that would support doing cross
   site retrieval via an iframe - but that didn't work in other user
   ... content negotiation should be part of the solution. there is no
   need for a rich new syntax. any existing syntax should be
   supportable. RDFa, HTML, JSON...

   ivan: why doesnt cross domain security apply to JSON files?

   markbirbeck: In the same way that you can get an image from any
   location into a page, you can refer to a script via an src attribute
   on another site. The code might not run, so you use something called
   JSONp. You return a function call, and the parameters are the data
   you want to get into the host application.
   ... would need a convention for emitting the right format (e.g.
   function call with parameters)

   manu: concern about requiring a JSON parser then to handle vocabs.

   <markbirbeck> document.meta.addMappings( { "foaf" : "[30]http://..."
   } );

     [30] http://../

   markbirbeck: the base format doesn't preclude parsing by non-JS
   environments. just need to strip off the beginning bit and parse
   through the name value pairs
   ... this doesn't impact authors. It effects vocabulary creators and

   ivan: no problem if what we say is that at a given URI we have a
   JSON file. There is support for JSON in other languages like Python
   ... not as excited about content negotiation. Seems like this is an
   extra complication that we don't want to force our vocabulary
   authors to have to deal with.

   manu: concern about how the information would get included in the

   <manu> <script src="[31]http://example.org/myvocab.js" /> ?

     [31] http://example.org/myvocab.js

   <markbirbeck> @vocab="[32]http://example.org/myvocab"

     [32] http://example.org/myvocab

   <manu> var theVocab="HTML+RDFa DOCUMENT"; ?

   shane: document.meta.parseRdfa("HTML+RDFa Document")


     [33] http://example.org/myvocab.js?callback=document.meta.addMappings

   ivan: so a python system would use the basic URI - a JS
   implementation would append the callback CGI parameter

   manu: could we require the servers to serve up other formats?

   markbirbeck: Jeni is working on standardizing the format of data
   that is being returned from servers (RDF <-> JSON) etc.
   ... it would be nice if this effort and the linked data effort on
   mappings converge.

   <markbirbeck> [34]http://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/

     [34] http://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/

   manu: let's shift some of this discussion to the mailing list and
   get input from others

   <manu> ShaneM: Here's are all the magic commands you'll ever need to
   know about scribing -


Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: ShaneM to identify the requirements for html2ps and
   see about getting reSpec to support them. [recorded in

   [PENDING] ACTION:  Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about
   TC 142. [recorded
   in [37]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
   [recorded in
   [PENDING] ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix
   in [39]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
   [recorded in
   [PENDING] ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for pulling in
   external vocabulary documents [recorded
   in [41]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]on07!
   [recorded in

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
     [38] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action04
     [39] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06
     [40] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action05
     [41] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07
     [42] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action06

   [DONE] ACTION:  Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via
   mailing list [recorded
   in [43]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
   [recorded in
   [DONE] ACTION:  Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external
   vocabulary documents. [recorded
   in [45]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
   [recorded in

     [43] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08
     [44] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action02
     [45] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08
     [46] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action03

   [End of minutes]

    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [47]scribe.perl version 1.135
    ([48]CVS log)
    $Date: 2010/01/15 05:38:36 $

     [47] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
     [48] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/


Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
FOAF   : http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
vCard  : http://www.ivan-herman.net/HermanIvan.vcf

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