Meeting minutes 2010-01-07

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Meeting minutes 2010-01-07

Ivan Herman-2
Minutes are at:

http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html

text version below.

Ivan

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                       RDFa in XHTML Task Force

07 Jan 2010

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary

   Previous: [3]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-rdfa-minutes.html

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-rdfa-minutes.html

   See also: [4]IRC log

      [4] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Manu Sporny, Ivan Herman, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton

   Regrets
          Mark Birbeck, Ben Adida

   Chair
          Manu Sporny

   Scribe
          Manu Sporny

Contents

     * [5]Topics
         1. [6]Action Items
         2. [7]RDFa WG charter review
         3. [8]RDFa 1.1 API
         4. [9]Organizational Items for RDFa WG
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

Action Items

   <scribe> ACTION:  Mark to ask Shane to generate URI Everywhere
   additions to XHTML+RDFa spec. [recorded
   in [11]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
   [DONE] [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

     [11] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action07

   <scribe> ACTION:  Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via
   mailing list [recorded
   in [13]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
   [CONTINUES] [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08

   <scribe> ACTION:  Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external
   vocabulary documents. [recorded
   in [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
   [CONTINUES] [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08

   <scribe> ACTION:  Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about
   TC 142. [recorded
   in [17]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
   [CONTINUES] [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09

   <scribe> ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix
   [recorded
   in [19]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
   [CONTINUES] [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06

   <scribe> ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external
   vocabulary documents [recorded
   in [21]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]on07!
   [CONTINUES] [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07

   <scribe> ACTION:  Manu to try and find other interested parties in
   RDFa WG. [recorded
   in [23]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
   [DONE] [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08

   Shane: Mark's URIs Everywhere proposal brought up something
   interesting - calling this stuff URIorCURIE
   ... There are two ways we can go here
   ... We can say: These properties take CURIEs, or these properties
   take URIs or CURIEs.
   ... If what we're trying to do is convince people that they can use
   URIs, we should leave it alone.

   Ivan: For people who have an abstract mind, it would be fine to use
   CURIEs...
   ... However, if you take somebody coming from the outside, they
   might not understand that you can use URIs.
   ... If we use CURIEorURI then the mapping is more clear.

   Steven: Since CURIE means compact URI, surely the reason we use it
   is because it can be compact, but it doesn't need to be.

   Shane: It's implemented the way Mark said.
   ... Permissions on the directory are messed up so I can't upload the
   document.

   Steven: I tried to fix it... it's reported and being worked on.

RDFa WG charter review

   Ivan: We received 8 reviews - good number of reviews (considering
   christmas and new years)
   ... 7 say go ahead with the charter.
   ... 1 gave a comment that was optional.
   ... all 8 said that they would participate, which is very good.
   ... Deadline is Jan 26th.
   ... We should ask for reviews around the 10th-15th.
   ... We might still get a comment in from somebody that would object.

RDFa 1.1 API

   Manu: We want to gather some general requirements.
   ... We want to ensure that it is very simple - 2-5 method calls
   instead of 20-30

   Ivan: Keep in mind that it should integrate with an RDF API in the
   future.

   Manu: We should make sure that it is fully implementable in pure
   Javascript.
   ... We also should ensure that it's implementable natively in the
   browser.

   Ivan: I should be able to serialize from RDFa to a triplestore.

   Manu: I can volunteer to start editing the RDFa 1.1 API... maybe
   hand it off to somebody else in the future.

Organizational Items for RDFa WG

   Shane: We should move away from XHTML-way of working on documents to
   the W3C way of working on documents.

   Ivan: We are looking at new ways of editing the spec... so we should
   discuss that at some time.

   <Steven> See
   [25]http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/ReSpec.js/test-spec/index.html

     [25] http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/ReSpec.js/test-spec/index.html

   <Steven> Uses js to create W3 format

   Ivan: SPARQL - all editors have CVS access and can edit the
   document. Then there is this new ReSpec stuff.
   ... We may want to use CVS and some sort of editorial format.

   Shane: The way the XHTML WG has done it for years has a great deal
   of legacy stuff - I care about the result, so I have some
   requirements on what such a system should produce.
   ... Some of those requirements come from Ian Jacobs. Perhaps I
   should write down what some of my requirements are.
   ... For example, TOCs generated automatically, references
   cross-checked, PDFs automatically produced - the more work the
   publication framework does, the easier the editors life.

   Ivan: The XML editorial stuff that the SPARQL people use takes care
   of a good bit of this stuff.
   ... The down-side is that you have to edit XML.
   ... Any browser can print to PDF, right?

   Shane: Yes, but we want to generate browseable/usable PDFs - TOCs
   that are linked to, etc.

   <ShaneM> [26]http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/rdfa-syntax.pdf

     [26] http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/rdfa-syntax.pdf

   Ivan: There is one more requirement that I would have, which is that
   it should not depend too much on some complex pipeline of programs.

   <Steven> It's 48 pages if I print the HTML version

   Ivan: I should be able to edit and publish from my local machine.

   <Steven> I like editing in Amaya

   Ivan: We shouldn't have to depend on one person or one type of
   platform.

   Shane: With XHTML2 specs - the documents were written in HTML, but
   it's a hybrid - there are additional elements that you can use to
   annotate things.
   ... We addressed this by giving CVS access to everyone, but when you
   checked it in, the tool would run on the checked in source code.

   Manu: There is also the anolis toolchain - which is pretty useful
   ... That is what is used to generate HTML+RDFa.

   Shane: The life of the document often exceeds the time the editor
   spends editing the spec.

   Ivan: So, how should we proceed.

   Manu: Maybe we should be able to try these systems out.

   <ivan> [27]this is the robin berjon one

     [27] http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/ReSpec.js/documentation.html

   Ivan: I want to make sure this is as easy as possible.

   <ShaneM> A lot of what we have done in the past is creating
   'elements' to abstract common concepts so that we get consistent
   styling

   <ShaneM> So "aref" is a reference to an attribute. 'eref' is a
   reference to am element.

   Manu: Right, but we have to make sure that there is a certain level
   of competence as well.
   ... Anolis does a great deal of what we're talking about.

   Ivan: ReSpec looks very interesting as well.

   Manu: Sounds like we don't want to use XMLSpec, moving forward.

   Ivan: I think we should look at XMLSpec as well.
   ... We should also have a WG wiki - so discussion and drafts can go
   on the wiki.

   Manu: Perhaps we should migrate rdfa.info/wiki to w3.org/wikis/rdfa
   ?

   <ivan> [28]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/

   Ivan: I don't think that would be the best direction -
   rdfa.info/wiki is community-based
   ... I would prefer to have rdfa.info/wiki as a part of the wiki I
   mention above.
   ... I think we should have a wiki area for the Working Group
   ... and another one for the RDFa Community.
   ... When we're playing around with ideas on RDFa 1.1 - we want just
   the WG to work on those things.
   ... We should have a MediaWiki instance just for the WG.

   Steven: Well, we already have a community setup around rdfa.info -
   moving it would be damaging to the community.

   Manu: We could do some URL-rewriting on the site and not disrupt old
   URLs.

   <ivan> [29]http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Main_Page

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Main_Page

Summary of Action Items

   [PENDING] ACTION:  Manu to aggressively push review of test cases
   via mailing list [recorded
   in [30]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
   [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION:  Manu to generate spec text for pulling in
   external vocabulary documents. [recorded
   in [32]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
   [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION:  Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about
   TC 142. [recorded
   in [34]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
   [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]
   [PENDING] ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix
   [recorded
   in [36]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
   [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]
   [PENDING] ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for pulling in
   external vocabulary documents [recorded
   in [38]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]on07!
   [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08
     [32] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08
     [34] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
     [36] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06
     [38] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07

   [DONE] ACTION:  Manu to try and find other interested parties in
   RDFa WG. [recorded
   in [40]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
   [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
   [DONE] ACTION:  Mark to ask Shane to generate URI Everywhere
   additions to XHTML+RDFa spec. [recorded
   in [42]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
   [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

     [40] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08
     [42] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action07

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [44]scribe.perl version 1.135
    ([45]CVS log)
    $Date: 2010/01/07 18:50:25 $
     _________________________________________________________

     [44] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
     [45] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

--

Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
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