Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

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Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

Smith, Kevin, (R&D) Vodafone Group
          Stephen B Morris has posted an innovative use for DIAL at  IBM developerworks: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-dial/
He posits  "DIAL provides what might become a standard data platform for IT management.", which is a very exciting, if unexpected, application!
 
Cheers
Kevin
 
 
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RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

Christian Timmerer (ITEC)

 

Dear Kevin,

   thanks for this article which is very interesting. The article describes how information (in a proprietary format like key-value pairs or comma-separated values) from different devices is transformed into XML format using a Java program(s). The claim is – as I understood it – that this XML document is compliant to DIAL.

 

I have some questions/comments:

     How is interoperability provided concerning the terms used within the adapter? For example, “Device” may have a different meaning for the network devices than for digital camera or projector.

     Is a document compliant to DIAL if it is XML format?

     Following this approach, it is required to have a Java program for each proprietary format of each device, right or have I missed something?

 

To be honest, I’m missing the last step, i.e., between the “Adapter” and the “Web browser on the PC”.

 

Thank you.

Best regards,

 -Christian

 

:--

:- Dipl.-Ing. Dr. Christian Timmerer

:- Department of Information Technology (ITEC)

:- Klagenfurt University, Austria

:- http://research.timmerer.com

:----------------------------------------------------------

 

>> Visit the IT Campus Carinthia

>> http://www.it-campus.at

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Smith, Kevin, VF-Group
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 2:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

          Stephen B Morris has posted an innovative use for DIAL at  IBM developerworks: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-dial/

He posits  "DIAL provides what might become a standard data platform for IT management.", which is a very exciting, if unexpected, application!

 

Cheers

Kevin

 

 

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RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

Rhys Lewis

Hi Christian,

 

Kevin didn’t actually write the article, he merely pointed us to it. I think you probably need to ask Stephen B. Morris, the author. Unfortunately, Stephen is not a member of DIWG, so can’t be reached via this mailing list.

 

Best wishes

Rhys Lewis, chair DIWG

 


From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Christian Timmerer (ITEC)
Sent: 17 October 2006 10:54
To: 'Smith, Kevin, VF-Group'; [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

 

Dear Kevin,

   thanks for this article which is very interesting. The article describes how information (in a proprietary format like key-value pairs or comma-separated values) from different devices is transformed into XML format using a Java program(s). The claim is – as I understood it – that this XML document is compliant to DIAL.

 

I have some questions/comments:

—     How is interoperability provided concerning the terms used within the adapter? For example, “Device” may have a different meaning for the network devices than for digital camera or projector.

—     Is a document compliant to DIAL if it is XML format?

—     Following this approach, it is required to have a Java program for each proprietary format of each device, right or have I missed something?

 

To be honest, I’m missing the last step, i.e., between the “Adapter” and the “Web browser on the PC”.

 

Thank you.

Best regards,

 -Christian

 

:--

:- Dipl.-Ing. Dr. Christian Timmerer

:- Department of Information Technology (ITEC)

:- Klagenfurt University, Austria

:- http://research.timmerer.com

:----------------------------------------------------------

 

>> Visit the IT Campus Carinthia

>> http://www.it-campus.at

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Smith, Kevin, VF-Group
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 2:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

          Stephen B Morris has posted an innovative use for DIAL at  IBM developerworks: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-dial/

He posits  "DIAL provides what might become a standard data platform for IT management.", which is a very exciting, if unexpected, application!

 

Cheers

Kevin

 

 

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RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

Christian Timmerer (ITEC)

 

Dear Rhys,

  thanks for your reply and clarification. However, I’m sure that members of the DIWG read this article and could probably share their view on this thread.

 

Thanks.

Best regards,

 -Christian

 

:--

:- Dipl.-Ing. Dr. Christian Timmerer

:- Department of Information Technology (ITEC)

:- Klagenfurt University, Austria

:- http://research.timmerer.com

:----------------------------------------------------------

 

>> Visit the IT Campus Carinthia

>> http://www.it-campus.at

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rhys Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:17 PM
To: Christian Timmerer (ITEC); Smith, Kevin, VF-Group; [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

Hi Christian,

 

Kevin didn’t actually write the article, he merely pointed us to it. I think you probably need to ask Stephen B. Morris, the author. Unfortunately, Stephen is not a member of DIWG, so can’t be reached via this mailing list.

 

Best wishes

Rhys Lewis, chair DIWG

 


From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Christian Timmerer (ITEC)
Sent: 17 October 2006 10:54
To: 'Smith, Kevin, VF-Group'; [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

 

Dear Kevin,

   thanks for this article which is very interesting. The article describes how information (in a proprietary format like key-value pairs or comma-separated values) from different devices is transformed into XML format using a Java program(s). The claim is – as I understood it – that this XML document is compliant to DIAL.

 

I have some questions/comments:

—     How is interoperability provided concerning the terms used within the adapter? For example, “Device” may have a different meaning for the network devices than for digital camera or projector.

—     Is a document compliant to DIAL if it is XML format?

—     Following this approach, it is required to have a Java program for each proprietary format of each device, right or have I missed something?

 

To be honest, I’m missing the last step, i.e., between the “Adapter” and the “Web browser on the PC”.

 

Thank you.

Best regards,

 -Christian

 

:--

:- Dipl.-Ing. Dr. Christian Timmerer

:- Department of Information Technology (ITEC)

:- Klagenfurt University, Austria

:- http://research.timmerer.com

:----------------------------------------------------------

 

>> Visit the IT Campus Carinthia

>> http://www.it-campus.at

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Smith, Kevin, VF-Group
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 2:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

          Stephen B Morris has posted an innovative use for DIAL at  IBM developerworks: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-dial/

He posits  "DIAL provides what might become a standard data platform for IT management.", which is a very exciting, if unexpected, application!

 

Cheers

Kevin

 

 

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RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

Smith, Kevin, (R&D) Vodafone Group
Hi Christian,
 
I can help with the last two questions:
 
- Is a document DIAL compliant if it is XML compliant?
No, it's the other way around - a document is XML compliant if it is DIAL compliant (or in the XML terminology, 'valid DIAL is well-formed XML'). Note that DIAL is one of many dialects of XML. It specifies a set of XML elements and attributes, and their structure and types, in the DIAL specification.
 
it is required to have a Java program for each proprietary format of each device
You would need a way of parsing each data format, each of which would need to be represented in Java (either as a condition, method, class or package)
 
For the other questions it's best to ask Mr Morris at http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-dial/
 
Hope that helps,
Kevin


From: Christian Timmerer (ITEC) [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 18 October 2006 15:29
To: [hidden email]; Smith, Kevin, VF-Group; [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

Dear Rhys,

  thanks for your reply and clarification. However, I’m sure that members of the DIWG read this article and could probably share their view on this thread.

 

Thanks.

Best regards,

 -Christian

 

:--

:- Dipl.-Ing. Dr. Christian Timmerer

:- Department of Information Technology (ITEC)

:- Klagenfurt University, Austria

:- http://research.timmerer.com

:----------------------------------------------------------

 

>> Visit the IT Campus Carinthia

>> http://www.it-campus.at

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rhys Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:17 PM
To: Christian Timmerer (ITEC); Smith, Kevin, VF-Group; [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

Hi Christian,

 

Kevin didn’t actually write the article, he merely pointed us to it. I think you probably need to ask Stephen B. Morris, the author. Unfortunately, Stephen is not a member of DIWG, so can’t be reached via this mailing list.

 

Best wishes

Rhys Lewis, chair DIWG

 


From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Christian Timmerer (ITEC)
Sent: 17 October 2006 10:54
To: 'Smith, Kevin, VF-Group'; [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

 

Dear Kevin,

   thanks for this article which is very interesting. The article describes how information (in a proprietary format like key-value pairs or comma-separated values) from different devices is transformed into XML format using a Java program(s). The claim is – as I understood it – that this XML document is compliant to DIAL.

 

I have some questions/comments:

—     How is interoperability provided concerning the terms used within the adapter? For example, “Device” may have a different meaning for the network devices than for digital camera or projector.

—     Is a document compliant to DIAL if it is XML format?

—     Following this approach, it is required to have a Java program for each proprietary format of each device, right or have I missed something?

 

To be honest, I’m missing the last step, i.e., between the “Adapter” and the “Web browser on the PC”.

 

Thank you.

Best regards,

 -Christian

 

:--

:- Dipl.-Ing. Dr. Christian Timmerer

:- Department of Information Technology (ITEC)

:- Klagenfurt University, Austria

:- http://research.timmerer.com

:----------------------------------------------------------

 

>> Visit the IT Campus Carinthia

>> http://www.it-campus.at

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Smith, Kevin, VF-Group
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 2:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

          Stephen B Morris has posted an innovative use for DIAL at  IBM developerworks: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-dial/

He posits  "DIAL provides what might become a standard data platform for IT management.", which is a very exciting, if unexpected, application!

 

Cheers

Kevin

 

 

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RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

Rotan Hanrahan
In reply to this post by Christian Timmerer (ITEC)
Purely my own thoughts on this...
 
—     How is interoperability provided concerning the terms used within the adapter? For example, “Device” may have a different meaning for the network devices than for digital camera or projector.
 
The article does not address the issue of vocabularies/ontologies for device concepts. Within specific management domains this may be standardised, such as prescribed branches of the SNMP MIB. But the article does not elaborate on the issue. The discussion on this issue is best addressed to the author (who appears to have a particular expertise in the area of network management metadata).
 
—     Is a document compliant to DIAL if it is XML format?
 
No. The fragments being generated by the adaptors could, as suggested, be valid subsets of a DIAL document. As DIAL is itself an XML language, the adaptors must also be producing XML. In particular, the author suggests the representation of management data by transforming to XML and from there to an XHTML 2 object. Nothing is said about how such objects should be adapted for rendering purposes. DIAL merely provides a presentation format that is adaptable, specifically by providing the ability to select/remove subsets of a DIAL document based on contextual information. But suppose you decide to select an <object>, then what? Nothing in DIAL says how individual elements or structures should be adapted to the target presentation. It is up to individual adaptation technologies to decide what to do. DIAL merely provides a common authoring language to support adaptation, it does not provide the specifics of the adaptation process. (I am excluding here the facilities provided by DISelect, which forms part of DIAL.) In essence, the article is describing how the management data could be captured and represented in DIAL, but does not explore how such DIAL instances (containing extremely domain-specific structures) would be transformed for presentation on a PC browser. Putting the data into <object> elements does not answer the question of rendering.
 
—     Following this approach, it is required to have a Java program for each proprietary format of each device, right or have I missed something?
 
Yes. That is my understanding too. Though I suspect that since there are only a handful of generally deployed network-based resource management technologies, re-use or inheritance of code is probably viable.

---Rotan


From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Christian Timmerer (ITEC)
Sent: 18 October 2006 15:29
To: [hidden email]; 'Smith, Kevin, VF-Group'; [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

Dear Rhys,

  thanks for your reply and clarification. However, I’m sure that members of the DIWG read this article and could probably share their view on this thread.

 

Thanks.

Best regards,

 -Christian

 

:--

:- Dipl.-Ing. Dr. Christian Timmerer

:- Department of Information Technology (ITEC)

:- Klagenfurt University, Austria

:- http://research.timmerer.com

:----------------------------------------------------------

 

>> Visit the IT Campus Carinthia

>> http://www.it-campus.at

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rhys Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:17 PM
To: Christian Timmerer (ITEC); Smith, Kevin, VF-Group; [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

Hi Christian,

 

Kevin didn’t actually write the article, he merely pointed us to it. I think you probably need to ask Stephen B. Morris, the author. Unfortunately, Stephen is not a member of DIWG, so can’t be reached via this mailing list.

 

Best wishes

Rhys Lewis, chair DIWG

 


From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Christian Timmerer (ITEC)
Sent: 17 October 2006 10:54
To: 'Smith, Kevin, VF-Group'; [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

 

Dear Kevin,

   thanks for this article which is very interesting. The article describes how information (in a proprietary format like key-value pairs or comma-separated values) from different devices is transformed into XML format using a Java program(s). The claim is – as I understood it – that this XML document is compliant to DIAL.

 

I have some questions/comments:

—     How is interoperability provided concerning the terms used within the adapter? For example, “Device” may have a different meaning for the network devices than for digital camera or projector.

—     Is a document compliant to DIAL if it is XML format?

—     Following this approach, it is required to have a Java program for each proprietary format of each device, right or have I missed something?

 

To be honest, I’m missing the last step, i.e., between the “Adapter” and the “Web browser on the PC”.

 

Thank you.

Best regards,

 -Christian

 

:--

:- Dipl.-Ing. Dr. Christian Timmerer

:- Department of Information Technology (ITEC)

:- Klagenfurt University, Austria

:- http://research.timmerer.com

:----------------------------------------------------------

 

>> Visit the IT Campus Carinthia

>> http://www.it-campus.at

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Smith, Kevin, VF-Group
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 2:54 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

 

          Stephen B Morris has posted an innovative use for DIAL at  IBM developerworks: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-dial/

He posits  "DIAL provides what might become a standard data platform for IT management.", which is a very exciting, if unexpected, application!

 

Cheers

Kevin

 

 

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Re: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

Johannes Koch-2

Rotan Hanrahan schrieb:
> -     Is a document compliant to DIAL if it is XML format?
>  
> No. The fragments being generated by the adaptors could, as suggested,
> be valid subsets of a DIAL document. As DIAL is itself an XML language,
> the adaptors must also be producing XML.

Is a DIAL adaptor really required to only produce XML? What about
non-XML formats (e.g. HTML)? Or is this transformation considered to be
a process following the adaptation?
--
Johannes Koch
In te domine speravi; non confundar in aeternum.
                             (Te Deum, 4th cent.)

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RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

Rotan Hanrahan

You are confusing the term "adaptor". Re-reading the article may
clarify.

The adaptors described in the article adapt a proprietary format (e.g.
comma separated values) into something that is placed within a DIAL
document. As a DIAL document is an XML document, it follows that the
output of the adaptors (as described in the article) must be producing
XML fragments. Specifically, the article describes the production of
XHTML 2 <object> elements.

Completely separate, and *not* described in the article, is the
subsequent adaptation of the complete DIAL document (within which the
previously mentioned XML fragments are contained). This is the document
transformation process. This is *not* described in the cited article.

The result of transforming DIAL can be absolutely anything. HTML, WML,
iMode, music, oil paintings, Braille, SVG, ASCII text, RSS etc etc etc.
None of this is described in the cited article.

The article should be considered a rather unusual and unorthodox use for
DIAL, and is certainly not a use case that was anticipated by DIWG. We
do not discount it, but we would not suggest using it as an example of
how DIAL is intended to be used. By focussing on the article, we may be
causing unnecessary distraction from the true intent of DIAL. I suggest
that a reading of the DIAL Primer [1] would be better.

---Rotan.

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/dial-primer/

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Johannes Koch
Sent: 18 October 2006 16:11
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management


Rotan Hanrahan schrieb:
> -     Is a document compliant to DIAL if it is XML format?
>  
> No. The fragments being generated by the adaptors could, as suggested,

> be valid subsets of a DIAL document. As DIAL is itself an XML
> language, the adaptors must also be producing XML.

Is a DIAL adaptor really required to only produce XML? What about
non-XML formats (e.g. HTML)? Or is this transformation considered to be
a process following the adaptation?
--
Johannes Koch
In te domine speravi; non confundar in aeternum.
                             (Te Deum, 4th cent.)


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RE: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management

Rhys Lewis
In reply to this post by Johannes Koch-2

Hello Johannes,

I think that there is a distinction to make here between DISelect processing, within DIAL, and subsequent adaptation that might result from processing the resulting DIAL.

The DISelect module within DIAL is designed to help content authors control expression of content within their markup. In fact, DISelect can be used in line or externally to DIAL. I'll be covering this in a forthcoming revision of the DISelect Primer. Where DISelect is used in an XML document, then its input and output do need to be XML compliant. Where DISelect is used in line within DIAL it controls expression of various parts of the DIAL document. The result is a modified DIAL document where the DISelect statements have been replaced by the appropriately selected content.

Typically, the resulting DIAL is then subsequently processed by further adaptation that can result in it being transformed into any kind of markup, or indeed non-markup, data stream. Current implementations of DIAL do exactly this and can generate any of dozens of types of output stream.

So in terms of your question, the final transformation is still within the adaptation step but is something that applies after DISelect processing modifies the DIAL.

I hope that clarifies the situation.

Best wishes
Rhys

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Johannes Koch
Sent: 18 October 2006 16:11
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Innovative use of DIAL for IT management


Rotan Hanrahan schrieb:
> -     Is a document compliant to DIAL if it is XML format?
>
> No. The fragments being generated by the adaptors could, as suggested,
> be valid subsets of a DIAL document. As DIAL is itself an XML language,
> the adaptors must also be producing XML.

Is a DIAL adaptor really required to only produce XML? What about
non-XML formats (e.g. HTML)? Or is this transformation considered to be
a process following the adaptation?
--
Johannes Koch
In te domine speravi; non confundar in aeternum.
                             (Te Deum, 4th cent.)