Creating an accessible Table of Contents

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Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Vivienne CONWAY
Hi all
 
I'm wondering if anyone has discovered how to create a Table of Contents in Word that reads properly with a screen reader when the document is put into PDF..  Using the automatic TOC function you get a disaster for reading - some styles read all the dots in the dot leader, others read something like 89 dot and then the page number.  At best if you choose the option for the solid line which is recommended you get "Chapter one one (page number)" with no pause - and that's only if you have the punctuation reading turned right down to minimal setting. As soon as you set the screen reader to read 'most' punctuation it reads either the dots or the number of dots etc.
 
I'm working with a local government who create a lot of large documents such as council meetings which are put into PDF that they need to make accessible and are accessed throuigh their website.  At present the TOC function is causing real headaches.  We've tried all kinds of options in Word they none of them read nicely from the PDF document that is created after tagging the Word document properly.
 
Any ideas?
 
 
Regards
 
Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)
PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
Mob: 0415 383 673
 
This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message.


This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.

CRICOS IPC 00279B
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RE: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Judy Gregg

Hi Vivienne,

 

One of the things the we found worked well is that in a Word document a TOC is very useful as it provides a form of navigation.  However, in converting it to a PDF document the TOC becomes redundant as bookmarks are already automatically created when using heading styles within Word. If the TOC is left in the Word document when converting to PDF it becomes confusing to many users as the TOC titles will be repeated in another bookmark, as well as, having an extremely long set of bookmarks; making the document more confusing for many users.

 

If you still absolutely have to use the TOC in the PDF eliminating the leaders is best.  Create one tab to align your page numbers rather than a leader.  That way if a person using a screen reader goes through the TOC they will still hear that there is a tab, but at least it is only one rather than several “dots”, “underscore” or “hyphen”.

 

Judy Gregg

From: Vivienne CONWAY [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: February-22-13 9:39 PM
To: [hidden email] list
Subject: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

 

Hi all

 

I'm wondering if anyone has discovered how to create a Table of Contents in Word that reads properly with a screen reader when the document is put into PDF..  Using the automatic TOC function you get a disaster for reading - some styles read all the dots in the dot leader, others read something like 89 dot and then the page number.  At best if you choose the option for the solid line which is recommended you get "Chapter one one (page number)" with no pause - and that's only if you have the punctuation reading turned right down to minimal setting. As soon as you set the screen reader to read 'most' punctuation it reads either the dots or the number of dots etc.

 

I'm working with a local government who create a lot of large documents such as council meetings which are put into PDF that they need to make accessible and are accessed throuigh their website.  At present the TOC function is causing real headaches.  We've tried all kinds of options in Word they none of them read nicely from the PDF document that is created after tagging the Word document properly.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Regards

 

Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)

PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.

Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.

Mob: 0415 383 673

 

This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message.

 


This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.

CRICOS IPC 00279B

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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Olaf Drümmer-3
If a document happens to contain a visible Table of Contents (TOC) as part of its pages' contents, it should be included in the tagging structure of the exported PDF.

If the visible content creates issues, such issues need to be fixed. In this case, leaders either have to be marked as artifacts (which seemingly Word doesn't get right, so one would have to do it after export in Acrobat or some other tool) or have to be avoided to begin with (as recommended by Judy)

I do not consider it to be a valid recommendation to avoid the visible TOC in the document altogether. It makes the document more accessible for some uses (e.g. sighted users).

Bookmarks are yet another method for accessing the document on a structural / navigational method - and more options are usually a good thing. It is important to create bookmarks that are consistent with other structural / navigational aspects, like TOC, but also with the heading structure as such.


Olaf



Am 25 Feb 2013 um 14:48 schrieb Judy Gregg:

Hi Vivienne,
 
One of the things the we found worked well is that in a Word document a TOC is very useful as it provides a form of navigation.  However, in converting it to a PDF document the TOC becomes redundant as bookmarks are already automatically created when using heading styles within Word. If the TOC is left in the Word document when converting to PDF it becomes confusing to many users as the TOC titles will be repeated in another bookmark, as well as, having an extremely long set of bookmarks; making the document more confusing for many users.
 
If you still absolutely have to use the TOC in the PDF eliminating the leaders is best.  Create one tab to align your page numbers rather than a leader.  That way if a person using a screen reader goes through the TOC they will still hear that there is a tab, but at least it is only one rather than several “dots”, “underscore” or “hyphen”.
 
Judy Gregg
From: Vivienne CONWAY [mailto:[hidden email]] 
Sent: February-22-13 9:39 PM
To: [hidden email] list
Subject: Creating an accessible Table of Contents
 
Hi all
 
I'm wondering if anyone has discovered how to create a Table of Contents in Word that reads properly with a screen reader when the document is put into PDF..  Using the automatic TOC function you get a disaster for reading - some styles read all the dots in the dot leader, others read something like 89 dot and then the page number.  At best if you choose the option for the solid line which is recommended you get "Chapter one one (page number)" with no pause - and that's only if you have the punctuation reading turned right down to minimal setting. As soon as you set the screen reader to read 'most' punctuation it reads either the dots or the number of dots etc.
 
I'm working with a local government who create a lot of large documents such as council meetings which are put into PDF that they need to make accessible and are accessed throuigh their website.  At present the TOC function is causing real headaches.  We've tried all kinds of options in Word they none of them read nicely from the PDF document that is created after tagging the Word document properly.
 
Any ideas?
 
 
Regards
 
Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)
PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
Mob: 0415 383 673
 
This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message.
 

This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.

CRICOS IPC 00279B

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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

devarshi pant
In reply to this post by Vivienne CONWAY
I have never had issues while converting a T O C in Word to PDF. It could be the settings. In JAWS 13, under text processing, you may want to look into the ‘filter repeated characters’ and tone it down to ‘say first 3 repeated characters.’
-Devarshi

 
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:39 PM, Vivienne CONWAY <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all
 
I'm wondering if anyone has discovered how to create a Table of Contents in Word that reads properly with a screen reader when the document is put into PDF..  Using the automatic TOC function you get a disaster for reading - some styles read all the dots in the dot leader, others read something like 89 dot and then the page number.  At best if you choose the option for the solid line which is recommended you get "Chapter one one (page number)" with no pause - and that's only if you have the punctuation reading turned right down to minimal setting. As soon as you set the screen reader to read 'most' punctuation it reads either the dots or the number of dots etc.
 
I'm working with a local government who create a lot of large documents such as council meetings which are put into PDF that they need to make accessible and are accessed throuigh their website.  At present the TOC function is causing real headaches.  We've tried all kinds of options in Word they none of them read nicely from the PDF document that is created after tagging the Word document properly.
 
Any ideas?
 
 
Regards
 
Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)
PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
Mob: 0415 383 673
 
This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message.


This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.

CRICOS IPC 00279B

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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Accessys@smart.net
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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

devarshi pant
How many variables should we account for during testing? I wouldn’t stress if T O C works or not in an XYZ platform if the process to convert to PDF is correct. Apparently, for me it worked with JAWS / Windows / PDF, and the conversion process was correct. For example, did the word document (that was converted to PDF) use correct styles (as in headers) to create the T O C or not? If a screen reader works on the Word document, but does not anymore on PDF after conversion, what then?
Going back to the original post, if the T O C is created off of styled headers and then converted to PDF, you can use the screen reader's headings list in PDF to replicate the T O C. That is besides using the bookmarks. So you have two different ways to get to the content if T O C fails for some reason.

 
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:18 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

you are aware that if it is a government website the content must be accessible via all operating systems not just windows.

Bob


On Mon, 25 Feb 2013, Devarshi Pant wrote:

I have never had issues while converting a T O C in Word to PDF. It could
be the settings. In JAWS 13, under text processing, you may want to look
into the ‘filter repeated characters’ and tone it down to ‘say first 3
repeated characters.’

On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:39 PM, Vivienne CONWAY <[hidden email]>wrote:

I'm wondering if anyone has discovered how to create a Table of Contents
in Word that reads properly with a screen reader when the document is put
into PDF..  Using the automatic TOC function you get a disaster for reading

I'm working with a local government who create a lot of large documents
such as council meetings which are put into PDF that they need to make
accessible and are accessed throuigh their website.  At present the TOC
function is causing real headaches.  We've tried all kinds of options in
Word they none of them read nicely from the PDF document that is created
after tagging the Word document properly.

Any ideas?


Regards

 Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT <http://b.it/>(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)

PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
 [hidden email]
[hidden email]
 Mob: 0415 383 673

This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual
or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please
notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original
message.

------------------------------

This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you
must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have
received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and
delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within
is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University
accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.

CRICOS IPC 00279B


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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Olaf Drümmer-3
In reply to this post by Accessys@smart.net
Hi Bob,

you fail to mention who your government is, but I don't think it is viable in the long run to require that something that is guaranteed to be accessible on all operating systems. That would go back to DOS which some people are still using, would include not only Mac OS and  iOS, but also all the Linux flavors, Sun Solaris OS, Symbian, the 'old' and the 'new' Blackberrry OS, Android, Chrome OS, the upcoming Firefox OS ...

I think the right thing to ask for, and to require if legal regulations come into play, is that the way content is provided complies with certain interface rules, for example those defined by WCAG or (for PDF) by the PDF/UA standard. It is then up to every user to get hold of computers, operating systems, programs and, if necessary, assistive technology that comply with these same interface rules from other side of the fence.

Everything else is not sustainable.

Olaf


PS: When was the last time your government purchased something other than Windows and Windows based programs/assistive technology?


Am 25 Feb 2013 um 19:18 schrieb [hidden email]:

>
> you are aware that if it is a government website the content must be accessible via all operating systems not just windows.
>
> Bob
>
> On Mon, 25 Feb 2013, Devarshi Pant wrote:
>
>> I have never had issues while converting a T O C in Word to PDF. It could
>> be the settings. In JAWS 13, under text processing, you may want to look
>> into the ‘filter repeated characters’ and tone it down to ‘say first 3
>> repeated characters.’
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:39 PM, Vivienne CONWAY <[hidden email]>wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if anyone has discovered how to create a Table of Contents
>>> in Word that reads properly with a screen reader when the document is put
>>> into PDF..  Using the automatic TOC function you get a disaster for reading
>>>
>>> I'm working with a local government who create a lot of large documents
>>> such as council meetings which are put into PDF that they need to make
>>> accessible and are accessed throuigh their website.  At present the TOC
>>> function is causing real headaches.  We've tried all kinds of options in
>>> Word they none of them read nicely from the PDF document that is created
>>> after tagging the Word document properly.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT <http://b.it/>(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)
>>> PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
>>> Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
>>> [hidden email]
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Mob: 0415 383 673
>>>
>>> This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual
>>> or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is
>>> strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please
>>> notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original
>>> message.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you
>>> must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have
>>> received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and
>>> delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within
>>> is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University
>>> accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.
>>>
>>> CRICOS IPC 00279B
>>>


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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Accessys@smart.net
In reply to this post by devarshi pant
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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Accessys@smart.net
In reply to this post by Olaf Drümmer-3

thought I mentioned USA since that is what I am most familiar with but
many other countries have similar provisions.

the law doesn't say what you can or can't use, only that a person with a
disability can not be required to spend any money that a non disabled
person would be required to spend to use that site.

so if the site can ONLY be accessed by someone running windows then the
windows OS would be acceptable (wrong but legal) however there would need
to be a free screen reader avaliable.

since PC's can dual boot linux/windows making it usable in linux under
eMACspeak would probably be "legal" if not the right way to do something.


(more below)

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013, [iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer wrote:

> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 21:12:02 +0100
> From: "[iso-8859-1] Olaf Drümmer" <[hidden email]>
> Resent-From: [hidden email]
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> you fail to mention who your government is, but I don't think it is
> Olaf
>
>
> PS: When was the last time your government purchased something other
> than Windows and Windows based programs/assistive technology?
I know several state and local governments running Linux and/or Macs  but
that is not the point, it is what is the user using, if the site is
intended for public use (public accomodation) then what it is written on
is irrelavant it is what is the "user using" that is the point.


Bob



>
>
> Am 25 Feb 2013 um 19:18 schrieb [hidden email]:
>
>>
>> you are aware that if it is a government website the content must be accessible via all operating systems not just windows.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Mon, 25 Feb 2013, Devarshi Pant wrote:
>>
>>> I have never had issues while converting a T O C in Word to PDF. It could
>>> be the settings. In JAWS 13, under text processing, you may want to look
>>> into the ‘filter repeated characters’ and tone it down to ‘say first 3
>>> repeated characters.’
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:39 PM, Vivienne CONWAY <[hidden email]>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has discovered how to create a Table of Contents
>>>> in Word that reads properly with a screen reader when the document is put
>>>> into PDF..  Using the automatic TOC function you get a disaster for reading
>>>>
>>>> I'm working with a local government who create a lot of large documents
>>>> such as council meetings which are put into PDF that they need to make
>>>> accessible and are accessed throuigh their website.  At present the TOC
>>>> function is causing real headaches.  We've tried all kinds of options in
>>>> Word they none of them read nicely from the PDF document that is created
>>>> after tagging the Word document properly.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT <http://b.it/>(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)
>>>> PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
>>>> Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Mob: 0415 383 673
>>>>
>>>> This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual
>>>> or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>>> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is
>>>> strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please
>>>> notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original
>>>> message.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you
>>>> must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have
>>>> received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and
>>>> delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within
>>>> is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University
>>>> accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.
>>>>
>>>> CRICOS IPC 00279B
>>>>
>
>
>
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RE: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Andy Keyworth
In reply to this post by Vivienne CONWAY

Hi Vivienne,

 

Our company regularly produces accessible PDFs for our clients- we have to avoid exactly the problems you describe below.

 

We use the following process:

 

1.       Create the original document in Microsoft Word 2010;

2.       Add the Table of Contents in MS Word, by using the References > Table of Contents feature. We use “Automatic Table 2” to set the format of the table.

3.       Use CommonLook PDF, a plugin for Acrobat, to do the actual conversion. We’ve found that it produces screen reader-friendly, consistent Tables of Contents.

 

I’ve tested the results in JAWS 10: the dots are not read out.

 

Andy Keyworth
Senior Web Accessibility Specialist | T-Base Communications Inc.
19 Main Street │ Ottawa, ON │ K1S 1A9
telephone. 613. 236. 0866 Ext. 256 │ fax. 613. 236. 0484 
email. [hidden email]

 

From: Vivienne CONWAY [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: February-22-13 9:39 PM
To: [hidden email] list
Subject: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

 

Hi all

 

I'm wondering if anyone has discovered how to create a Table of Contents in Word that reads properly with a screen reader when the document is put into PDF..  Using the automatic TOC function you get a disaster for reading - some styles read all the dots in the dot leader, others read something like 89 dot and then the page number.  At best if you choose the option for the solid line which is recommended you get "Chapter one one (page number)" with no pause - and that's only if you have the punctuation reading turned right down to minimal setting. As soon as you set the screen reader to read 'most' punctuation it reads either the dots or the number of dots etc.

 

I'm working with a local government who create a lot of large documents such as council meetings which are put into PDF that they need to make accessible and are accessed throuigh their website.  At present the TOC function is causing real headaches.  We've tried all kinds of options in Word they none of them read nicely from the PDF document that is created after tagging the Word document properly.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Regards

 

Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)

PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.

Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.

Mob: 0415 383 673

 

This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message.

 


This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.

CRICOS IPC 00279B

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RE: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Accessys@smart.net
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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

devarshi pant
In reply to this post by Andy Keyworth
There is no need for any plugin to make T O C 'accessible.' It just needs to be done correctly in the source Word document before converting.
 
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Andy Keyworth <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Vivienne,

 

Our company regularly produces accessible PDFs for our clients- we have to avoid exactly the problems you describe below.

 

We use the following process:

 

1.       Create the original document in Microsoft Word 2010;

2.       Add the Table of Contents in MS Word, by using the References > Table of Contents feature. We use “Automatic Table 2” to set the format of the table.

3.       Use CommonLook PDF, a plugin for Acrobat, to do the actual conversion. We’ve found that it produces screen reader-friendly, consistent Tables of Contents.

 

I’ve tested the results in JAWS 10: the dots are not read out.

 

Andy Keyworth
Senior Web Accessibility Specialist | T-Base Communications Inc.
19 Main Street │ Ottawa, ON │ K1S 1A9
telephone. <a href="tel:613.%20236.%200866%20Ext.%20256" target="_blank" value="+16132360866">613. 236. 0866 Ext. 256 │ fax. <a href="tel:613.%20236.%200484" target="_blank" value="+16132360484">613. 236. 0484 
email. [hidden email]

 

From: Vivienne CONWAY [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: February-22-13 9:39 PM
To: [hidden email] list
Subject: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

 

Hi all

 

I'm wondering if anyone has discovered how to create a Table of Contents in Word that reads properly with a screen reader when the document is put into PDF..  Using the automatic TOC function you get a disaster for reading - some styles read all the dots in the dot leader, others read something like 89 dot and then the page number.  At best if you choose the option for the solid line which is recommended you get "Chapter one one (page number)" with no pause - and that's only if you have the punctuation reading turned right down to minimal setting. As soon as you set the screen reader to read 'most' punctuation it reads either the dots or the number of dots etc.

 

I'm working with a local government who create a lot of large documents such as council meetings which are put into PDF that they need to make accessible and are accessed throuigh their website.  At present the TOC function is causing real headaches.  We've tried all kinds of options in Word they none of them read nicely from the PDF document that is created after tagging the Word document properly.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Regards

 

Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)

PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.

Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.

Mob: 0415 383 673

 

This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message.

 


This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.

CRICOS IPC 00279B


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RE: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Andy Keyworth

Our communications professionals, who understand MS Word and its accessibility features well, encountered the same kinds of problems that Vivienne originally described. CommonLook was a worthwhile investment.

 

Andy Keyworth
Senior Web Accessibility Specialist | T-Base Communications Inc.
19 Main Street │ Ottawa, ON │ K1S 1A9
telephone. 613. 236. 0866 Ext. 256 │ fax. 613. 236. 0484 
email. [hidden email]

 

From: Devarshi Pant [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: February-25-13 4:25 PM
To: Andy Keyworth
Cc: Vivienne CONWAY; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

 

There is no need for any plugin to make T O C 'accessible.' It just needs to be done correctly in the source Word document before converting.

 

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Andy Keyworth <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Vivienne,

 

Our company regularly produces accessible PDFs for our clients- we have to avoid exactly the problems you describe below.

 

We use the following process:

 

1.       Create the original document in Microsoft Word 2010;

2.       Add the Table of Contents in MS Word, by using the References > Table of Contents feature. We use “Automatic Table 2” to set the format of the table.

3.       Use CommonLook PDF, a plugin for Acrobat, to do the actual conversion. We’ve found that it produces screen reader-friendly, consistent Tables of Contents.

 

I’ve tested the results in JAWS 10: the dots are not read out.

 

Andy Keyworth
Senior Web Accessibility Specialist | T-Base Communications Inc.
19 Main Street │ Ottawa, ON │ K1S 1A9
telephone. <a href="tel:613.%20236.%200866%20Ext.%20256" target="_blank">613. 236. 0866 Ext. 256 │ fax. <a href="tel:613.%20236.%200484" target="_blank">613. 236. 0484 
email. [hidden email]

 

From: Vivienne CONWAY [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: February-22-13 9:39 PM
To: [hidden email] list
Subject: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

 

Hi all

 

I'm wondering if anyone has discovered how to create a Table of Contents in Word that reads properly with a screen reader when the document is put into PDF..  Using the automatic TOC function you get a disaster for reading - some styles read all the dots in the dot leader, others read something like 89 dot and then the page number.  At best if you choose the option for the solid line which is recommended you get "Chapter one one (page number)" with no pause - and that's only if you have the punctuation reading turned right down to minimal setting. As soon as you set the screen reader to read 'most' punctuation it reads either the dots or the number of dots etc.

 

I'm working with a local government who create a lot of large documents such as council meetings which are put into PDF that they need to make accessible and are accessed throuigh their website.  At present the TOC function is causing real headaches.  We've tried all kinds of options in Word they none of them read nicely from the PDF document that is created after tagging the Word document properly.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Regards

 

Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)

PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.

Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.

Mob: 0415 383 673

 

This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message.

 


This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.

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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Accessys@smart.net
In reply to this post by devarshi pant
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RE: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

devarshi pant
In reply to this post by Vivienne CONWAY
I often use CommonLook to remediate complex tables and it is indeed effective, but not to create T O C.

Andy Keyworth <[hidden email]> wrote:

Our communications professionals, who understand MS Word and its accessibility features well, encountered the same kinds of problems that Vivienne originally described. CommonLook was a worthwhile investment.

 

Andy Keyworth
Senior Web Accessibility Specialist | T-Base Communications Inc.
19 Main Street │ Ottawa, ON │ K1S 1A9
telephone. 613. 236. 0866 Ext. 256 │ fax. 613. 236. 0484 
email. [hidden email]

 

From: Devarshi Pant [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: February-25-13 4:25 PM
To: Andy Keyworth
Cc: Vivienne CONWAY; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

 

There is no need for any plugin to make T O C 'accessible.' It just needs to be done correctly in the source Word document before converting.

 

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Andy Keyworth <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Vivienne,

 

Our company regularly produces accessible PDFs for our clients- we have to avoid exactly the problems you describe below.

 

We use the following process:

 

1.       Create the original document in Microsoft Word 2010;

2.       Add the Table of Contents in MS Word, by using the References > Table of Contents feature. We use “Automatic Table 2” to set the format of the table.

3.       Use CommonLook PDF, a plugin for Acrobat, to do the actual conversion. We’ve found that it produces screen reader-friendly, consistent Tables of Contents.

 

I’ve tested the results in JAWS 10: the dots are not read out.

 

Andy Keyworth
Senior Web Accessibility Specialist | T-Base Communications Inc.
19 Main Street │ Ottawa, ON │ K1S 1A9
telephone. <a href="tel:613.%20236.%200866%20Ext.%20256" target="_blank">613. 236. 0866 Ext. 256 │ fax. <a href="tel:613.%20236.%200484" target="_blank">613. 236. 0484 
email. [hidden email]

 

From: Vivienne CONWAY [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: February-22-13 9:39 PM
To: [hidden email] list
Subject: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

 

Hi all

 

I'm wondering if anyone has discovered how to create a Table of Contents in Word that reads properly with a screen reader when the document is put into PDF..  Using the automatic TOC function you get a disaster for reading - some styles read all the dots in the dot leader, others read something like 89 dot and then the page number.  At best if you choose the option for the solid line which is recommended you get "Chapter one one (page number)" with no pause - and that's only if you have the punctuation reading turned right down to minimal setting. As soon as you set the screen reader to read 'most' punctuation it reads either the dots or the number of dots etc.

 

I'm working with a local government who create a lot of large documents such as council meetings which are put into PDF that they need to make accessible and are accessed throuigh their website.  At present the TOC function is causing real headaches.  We've tried all kinds of options in Word they none of them read nicely from the PDF document that is created after tagging the Word document properly.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Regards

 

Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)

PhD Candidate & Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.

Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.

Mob: 0415 383 673

 

This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify me immediately by return email or telephone and destroy the original message.

 


This e-mail is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not disclose or use the information contained within. If you have received it in error please return it to the sender via reply e-mail and delete any record of it from your system. The information contained within is not the opinion of Edith Cowan University in general and the University accepts no liability for the accuracy of the information provided.

CRICOS IPC 00279B

 

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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Ramón Corominas
In reply to this post by Olaf Drümmer-3
Olaf said:

 > I don't think it is viable in the long run to require that
 > something that is guaranteed to be accessible on all operating
 > systems.

Probably not, but WCAG talks about "accessibility support", and
therefore "Windows-only" can only be acceptable in a closed environment.

Moreover, sighted MacOS users don't need to spend more to buy a copy of
Windows (and of course would not have to install a complete OS to read a
PDF). However, blind MacOS users would have to:

1. Buy a copy of Windows
2. Install it (at least as a Virtual Machine)
3. Install a screen reader that is compatible with Adobe Reader

So "Windows-only" does not meet the requirement about "same cost, same
easiness", and therefore cannot be used to claim accessibility support.

And, of course, I don't think that excluding all MacOS users, all Linux
users, all iOS users, all Android users, among others, can be considered
acceptable in terms of "accessibility support".

Regards,
Ramón.


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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Ginger Claassen
Dear Ramon,

Thanks for your input but you are quite wrong here. For blind MacOS users it is not necessary to spend any money on any kind of software in order to read a pdf document unless our Mac here in the office was magically equipped for us because they had a glass ball at Apple and knew that we are blind here. It is no problem at all to read those documents as long as they are readable i.e. are not composed out of graphics which would be the same for Windows users.
So, unless you ment something completely different which I did not understand you are wrong here.

Solong

    Ginger

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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Ramón Corominas
Hi, Ginger and all,

I am not talking about the possibility of just reading the text of a PDF
document, but about the possibility to read it in an accessible way.
I've prepared a simple example of an "accessible" PDF document to
illustrate the issue. You can access it here (I apologise in advance if
I missed something and it's not completely accessible):

http://ramoncorominas.com/stellar_classification.pdf

This document has a 2-level heading structure, 2 links, an image with
alternative text, several lists and a data table. Now, using MacOS:

- Can you navigate the PDF structure using the headings?
- Can you obtain a list of links? Can you activate those links?
- Can you read the alternative text of the image? Do you even know that
there is an image?
- Can you navigate through lists and list items? Do you even know that
there are lists?
- Can you navigate the table and understand its data? Do you even know
that there is a table?

If the answer is "yes", please tell me how you do it. I'm sincerely
interested on that, since I've not being able to find a tool that reads
the PDF accessibility tagging on MacOS.

If the answer is "no", then I cannot say that PDF accessibility features
are "accessibility supported", unless they are only available in a
closed environment only Windows platforms are used.

Regards,
Ramón.

Ginger wrote:

> Thanks for your input but you are quite wrong here. For blind MacOS
> users it is not necessary to spend any money on any kind of software in
> order to read a pdf document unless our Mac here in the office was
> magically equipped for us because they had a glass ball at Apple and
> knew that we are blind here. It is no problem at all to read those
> documents as long as they are readable i.e. are not composed out of
> graphics which would be the same for Windows users.
> So, unless you ment something completely different which I did not
> understand you are wrong here.


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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Olaf Drümmer-3
Hi Ramón,

I do not have a perfect answer yet, because one pre-requisite is not yet free of charge:

if you have Adobe Acrobat and download and install the free "callas pdfGoHTML" plug-in (from http://www.callassoftware.com/callas/doku.php/en:download ) you can convert your accessible {DF's content into HTML and open it in the default browser, giving you access to all that (based on VoiceOver and its support of HTML content in a web browser).

We hope to also be able soon to launch a version of callas pdfGoHTML for the free Adobe Reader, which will bring down the additional cost to zero.

Olaf

Am 28 Feb 2013 um 23:02 schrieb Ramón Corominas:

> Hi, Ginger and all,
>
> I am not talking about the possibility of just reading the text of a PDF document, but about the possibility to read it in an accessible way. I've prepared a simple example of an "accessible" PDF document to illustrate the issue. You can access it here (I apologise in advance if I missed something and it's not completely accessible):
>
> http://ramoncorominas.com/stellar_classification.pdf
>
> This document has a 2-level heading structure, 2 links, an image with alternative text, several lists and a data table. Now, using MacOS:
>
> - Can you navigate the PDF structure using the headings?
> - Can you obtain a list of links? Can you activate those links?
> - Can you read the alternative text of the image? Do you even know that there is an image?
> - Can you navigate through lists and list items? Do you even know that there are lists?
> - Can you navigate the table and understand its data? Do you even know that there is a table?
>
> If the answer is "yes", please tell me how you do it. I'm sincerely interested on that, since I've not being able to find a tool that reads the PDF accessibility tagging on MacOS.
>
> If the answer is "no", then I cannot say that PDF accessibility features are "accessibility supported", unless they are only available in a closed environment only Windows platforms are used.
>
> Regards,
> Ramón.
>
> Ginger wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your input but you are quite wrong here. For blind MacOS users it is not necessary to spend any money on any kind of software in order to read a pdf document unless our Mac here in the office was magically equipped for us because they had a glass ball at Apple and knew that we are blind here. It is no problem at all to read those documents as long as they are readable i.e. are not composed out of graphics which would be the same for Windows users.
>> So, unless you ment something completely different which I did not understand you are wrong here.
>
>


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Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents

Accessys@smart.net
In reply to this post by Ramón Corominas

won't work at all on Linux/Lynx

Bob



On Thu, 28 Feb 2013, [UTF-8] Ramón Corominas wrote:

> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 23:02:36 +0100
> From: "[UTF-8] Ramón Corominas" <[hidden email]>
> To: Ginger Claassen <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email] list" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Creating an accessible Table of Contents
> Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 22:03:08 +0000
> Resent-From: [hidden email]
>
> Hi, Ginger and all,
>
> I am not talking about the possibility of just reading the text of a PDF
> document, but about the possibility to read it in an accessible way. I've
> prepared a simple example of an "accessible" PDF document to illustrate the
> issue. You can access it here (I apologise in advance if I missed something
> and it's not completely accessible):
>
> http://ramoncorominas.com/stellar_classification.pdf
>
> This document has a 2-level heading structure, 2 links, an image with
> alternative text, several lists and a data table. Now, using MacOS:
>
> - Can you navigate the PDF structure using the headings?
> - Can you obtain a list of links? Can you activate those links?
> - Can you read the alternative text of the image? Do you even know that there
> is an image?
> - Can you navigate through lists and list items? Do you even know that there
> are lists?
> - Can you navigate the table and understand its data? Do you even know that
> there is a table?
>
> If the answer is "yes", please tell me how you do it. I'm sincerely
> interested on that, since I've not being able to find a tool that reads the
> PDF accessibility tagging on MacOS.
>
> If the answer is "no", then I cannot say that PDF accessibility features are
> "accessibility supported", unless they are only available in a closed
> environment only Windows platforms are used.
>
> Regards,
> Ramón.
>
> Ginger wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your input but you are quite wrong here. For blind MacOS users
>> it is not necessary to spend any money on any kind of software in order to
>> read a pdf document unless our Mac here in the office was magically
>> equipped for us because they had a glass ball at Apple and knew that we
>> are blind here. It is no problem at all to read those documents as long as
>> they are readable i.e. are not composed out of graphics which would be the
>> same for Windows users.
>> So, unless you ment something completely different which I did not
>> understand you are wrong here.
>
>
123