Color contrast (Minimum)

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Color contrast (Minimum)

Ta, Duc
Hi,

I have a question. I know large text that pass color contrast ratio of 3:1 would pass the color contrast. Is it possible to consider this as failure if it is barely readable with black and white or color blinded people?

Example
Inline image 1



Best,
Duc Ta
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RE: Color contrast (Minimum)

SALES, TERRY LYNN

I’d fail it but we apply the 4.5:1 to all text in DHS.  Functionally, it’s not readable.

 

Terry Lynn (TL) Sales

Section 508 and UI Tester

DHS/CBP/OIT/CSPD

571-468-5271 Desk

703-945-2777 B’Berry

 

From: Ta, Duc [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:19 AM
To: IG - WAI Interest Group List list <[hidden email]>
Subject: Color contrast (Minimum)

 

Hi,

 

I have a question. I know large text that pass color contrast ratio of 3:1 would pass the color contrast. Is it possible to consider this as failure if it is barely readable with black and white or color blinded people?

 

Example

Inline image 1

 

 

 

Best,

Duc Ta

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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Elizabeth J. Pyatt
I’m curious as to what the colors of the background and text are.  I’m trying to see what a 3:1 ratio looks like and it looks different from what I see in the image.

Hope this makes sense.

Best
Elizabeth Pyatt

> On Aug 16, 2016, at 10:38 AM, SALES, TERRY LYNN <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I’d fail it but we apply the 4.5:1 to all text in DHS.  Functionally, it’s not readable.
>  
> Terry Lynn (TL) Sales
> Section 508 and UI Tester
> DHS/CBP/OIT/CSPD
> 571-468-5271 Desk
> 703-945-2777 B’Berry
>  
> From: Ta, Duc [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:19 AM
> To: IG - WAI Interest Group List list <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Color contrast (Minimum)
>  
> Hi,
>  
> I have a question. I know large text that pass color contrast ratio of 3:1 would pass the color contrast. Is it possible to consider this as failure if it is barely readable with black and white or color blinded people?
>  
> Example
> <image001.png>
>  
>  
>  
> Best,
> Duc Ta

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer
Teaching and Learning with Technology
Penn State University
[hidden email], (814) 865-0805 or (814) 865-2030 (Main Office)

3A Shields Building
University Park, PA 16802
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
http://tlt.psu.edu


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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Gregg Vanderheiden RTF
all information — including samples of text at different colors and contrasts is in the Understanding WCAG 2.0 doc


see color contrast samples  link

gregg

On Aug 16, 2016, at 12:21 PM, Elizabeth Pyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’m curious as to what the colors of the background and text are.  I’m trying to see what a 3:1 ratio looks like and it looks different from what I see in the image.

Hope this makes sense.

Best
Elizabeth Pyatt
On Aug 16, 2016, at 10:38 AM, SALES, TERRY LYNN <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’d fail it but we apply the 4.5:1 to all text in DHS.  Functionally, it’s not readable.

Terry Lynn (TL) Sales
Section 508 and UI Tester
DHS/CBP/OIT/CSPD
571-468-5271 Desk
703-945-2777 B’Berry

From: Ta, Duc [[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:19 AM
To: IG - WAI Interest Group List list <[hidden email]>
Subject: Color contrast (Minimum)

Hi,

I have a question. I know large text that pass color contrast ratio of 3:1 would pass the color contrast. Is it possible to consider this as failure if it is barely readable with black and white or color blinded people?

Example
<image001.png>



Best,
Duc Ta

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer
Teaching and Learning with Technology
Penn State University
[hidden email], (814) 865-0805 or (814) 865-2030 (Main Office)

3A Shields Building
University Park, PA 16802
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
http://tlt.psu.edu



DDM
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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

DDM
In reply to this post by Ta, Duc
I'd most certainly consider this a failure since with my color blindness I can not read the image.  What does it read?

I'd say just like with what I've seen with building access code when meeting a criteria/code does not all the time make it accessible. Sometimes meeting requirements is not the only solution.  It is taking those extra steps beyond and noting that the info is legible to all.

Also in an overall of design You'd want your info to be easily accessible for persons to get the info.

Helen



iSent from  the Event Horizon


> On Aug 16, 2016, at 7:19 AM, Ta, Duc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a question. I know large text that pass color contrast ratio of 3:1 would pass the color contrast. Is it possible to consider this as failure if it is barely readable with black and white or color blinded people?
>
> Example
> <image.png>
>
>
>
> Best,
> Duc Ta


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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Andrew Kirkpatrick-2
In reply to this post by Ta, Duc
I measured the contrast on your example and it is 1.27:1.  That certainly fails, and probably isn’t the right example for a question about whether 3:1 is sufficient…

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Standards and Accessibility
Adobe 

http://twitter.com/awkawk

From: "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>
Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 10:19
To: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
Subject: Color contrast (Minimum)
Resent-From: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 10:19

Hi,

I have a question. I know large text that pass color contrast ratio of 3:1 would pass the color contrast. Is it possible to consider this as failure if it is barely readable with black and white or color blinded people?

Example
Inline image 1



Best,
Duc Ta
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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Ta, Duc
The actual color is dark red background and the text is red. However, when I check black and white mode, it turns out to be that so i am not sure whether I should consider it as a failure or I will say it is decent and move on.


Best,
Duc Ta

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 1:29 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
I measured the contrast on your example and it is 1.27:1.  That certainly fails, and probably isn’t the right example for a question about whether 3:1 is sufficient…

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Standards and Accessibility
Adobe 


From: "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>
Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 10:19
To: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
Subject: Color contrast (Minimum)
Resent-From: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 10:19

Hi,

I have a question. I know large text that pass color contrast ratio of 3:1 would pass the color contrast. Is it possible to consider this as failure if it is barely readable with black and white or color blinded people?

Example
Inline image 1



Best,
Duc Ta



--

--------------------------------

Duc Ta

IT Consultant

Tel:   (323) 412-4894

www.dtaconsulting.org

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RE: Color contrast (Minimum)

Balusani, Shirisha
In reply to this post by DDM
I agree with Helen, this is very difficult to see.
Just passing the rules does not mean that it is accessible.
Sometimes we need to make our own judgment and think out of the box to make sure it is accessible to different users.

Thanks
Siri


-----Original Message-----
From: DDM [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:56 AM
To: Ta, Duc <[hidden email]>
Cc: IG - WAI Interest Group List list <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

I'd most certainly consider this a failure since with my color blindness I can not read the image.  What does it read?

I'd say just like with what I've seen with building access code when meeting a criteria/code does not all the time make it accessible. Sometimes meeting requirements is not the only solution.  It is taking those extra steps beyond and noting that the info is legible to all.

Also in an overall of design You'd want your info to be easily accessible for persons to get the info.

Helen



iSent from  the Event Horizon


> On Aug 16, 2016, at 7:19 AM, Ta, Duc <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a question. I know large text that pass color contrast ratio of 3:1 would pass the color contrast. Is it possible to consider this as failure if it is barely readable with black and white or color blinded people?
>
> Example
> <image.png>
>
>
>
> Best,
> Duc Ta



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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Gregg Vanderheiden RTF
I thought Andrew said the contrast was 1.27 to 1.   

If that is correct — that is not even close to passing - so it would be no wonder it was hard to read. 

gregg

On Aug 16, 2016, at 2:08 PM, Balusani, Shirisha <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree with Helen, this is very difficult to see.
Just passing the rules does not mean that it is accessible.
Sometimes we need to make our own judgment and think out of the box to make sure it is accessible to different users.

Thanks
Siri


-----Original Message-----
From: DDM [[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 11:56 AM
To: Ta, Duc <[hidden email]>
Cc: IG - WAI Interest Group List list <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

I'd most certainly consider this a failure since with my color blindness I can not read the image.  What does it read?

I'd say just like with what I've seen with building access code when meeting a criteria/code does not all the time make it accessible. Sometimes meeting requirements is not the only solution.  It is taking those extra steps beyond and noting that the info is legible to all.

Also in an overall of design You'd want your info to be easily accessible for persons to get the info.

Helen



iSent from  the Event Horizon


On Aug 16, 2016, at 7:19 AM, Ta, Duc <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

I have a question. I know large text that pass color contrast ratio of 3:1 would pass the color contrast. Is it possible to consider this as failure if it is barely readable with black and white or color blinded people?

Example
<image.png>



Best,
Duc Ta




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RE: Color contrast (Minimum)

Phill Jenkins
In reply to this post by SALES, TERRY LYNN
I agree the example fails.

I'm curious what contrast ratio DHS uses for so called grayed out (e.g. disabled) text and icons?  

1.4.3Contrast (Minimum): The visual presentation of textand images of text has a contrast ratio of at least 4.5:1, except for the following:
Some accessibility professionals are recommending a 3:1 ratio as a best practice for inactive elements.  
___________
Regards,
Phill Jenkins,
Senior Accessibility Engineer
IBM Research - IBM Accessibility

ibm.com/able
facebook.com/IBMAccessibility
twitter.com/IBMAccess
ageandability.com




From:        "SALES, TERRY LYNN" <[hidden email]>
To:        "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>, IG - WAI Interest Group List list <[hidden email]>
Date:        08/16/2016 09:49 AM
Subject:        RE: Color contrast (Minimum)




I’d fail it but we apply the 4.5:1 to all text in DHS.  Functionally, it’s not readable.
 
Terry Lynn (TL) Sales
Section 508 and UI Tester
DHS/CBP/OIT/CSPD
571-468-5271 Desk
703-945-2777 B’Berry
 
From: Ta, Duc [mailto:duc.ta.740@...]
Sent:
Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:19 AM
To:
IG - WAI Interest Group List list <[hidden email]>
Subject:
Color contrast (Minimum)

 
Hi,
 
I have a question. I know large text that pass color contrast ratio of 3:1 would pass the color contrast. Is it possible to consider this as failure if it is barely readable with black and white or color blinded people?
 
Example
Inline image 1
 
 
 
Best,
Duc Ta


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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Andrew Kirkpatrick-2
In reply to this post by Ta, Duc
This is one of the problems of images of text.  If you have an image of text and it meets the contrast ratio but then change the system display settings you can make something unreadable.

The current SC doesn’t take display settings into account, so if it meets 4.5:1 (or 3:1 if applicable) then it passes.  That doesn’t mean that it will address the needs of all users and in all circumstances, in fact you can be assured that it doesn’t, but it would meet the WCAG SC currently.  We are discussing how to improve this on the Low Vision Task Force.

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Standards and Accessibility
Adobe 

http://twitter.com/awkawk

From: "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>
Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 13:53
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]>
Cc: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

The actual color is dark red background and the text is red. However, when I check black and white mode, it turns out to be that so i am not sure whether I should consider it as a failure or I will say it is decent and move on.


Best,
Duc Ta

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 1:29 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
I measured the contrast on your example and it is 1.27:1.  That certainly fails, and probably isn’t the right example for a question about whether 3:1 is sufficient…

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Standards and Accessibility
Adobe 


From: "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>
Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 10:19
To: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
Subject: Color contrast (Minimum)
Resent-From: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 10:19

Hi,

I have a question. I know large text that pass color contrast ratio of 3:1 would pass the color contrast. Is it possible to consider this as failure if it is barely readable with black and white or color blinded people?

Example
Inline image 1



Best,
Duc Ta



--

--------------------------------

Duc Ta

IT Consultant

Tel:   (323) 412-4894

www.dtaconsulting.org

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RE: Color contrast (Minimum)

SALES, TERRY LYNN
In reply to this post by Phill Jenkins
DHS currently excludes "nonactive" elements. However, because some applications you can tell what you did wrong by what's disabled, I make our developers make them pass 4.5:1 for disabled anyway. Usually using grays.
 

From: Phill Jenkins
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 3:01:36 PM
To: SALES, TERRY LYNN
Cc: Ta, Duc; IG - WAI Interest Group List list
Subject: RE: Color contrast (Minimum)

I agree the example fails.

I'm curious what contrast ratio DHS uses for so called grayed out (e.g. disabled) text and icons?  

1.4.3Contrast (Minimum): The visual presentation of textand images of text has a contrast ratio of at least 4.5:1, except for the following:
Some accessibility professionals are recommending a 3:1 ratio as a best practice for inactive elements.  
___________
Regards,
Phill Jenkins,
Senior Accessibility Engineer
IBM Research - IBM Accessibility

ibm.com/able
facebook.com/IBMAccessibility
twitter.com/IBMAccess
ageandability.com




From:        "SALES, TERRY LYNN" <[hidden email]>
To:        "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>, IG - WAI Interest Group List list <[hidden email]>
Date:        08/16/2016 09:49 AM
Subject:        RE: Color contrast (Minimum)




I’d fail it but we apply the 4.5:1 to all text in DHS.  Functionally, it’s not readable.
 
Terry Lynn (TL) Sales
Section 508 and UI Tester
DHS/CBP/OIT/CSPD
571-468-5271 Desk
703-945-2777 B’Berry
 
From: Ta, Duc [[hidden email]]
Sent:
Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:19 AM
To:
IG - WAI Interest Group List list <[hidden email]>
Subject:
Color contrast (Minimum)

 
Hi,
 
I have a question. I know large text that pass color contrast ratio of 3:1 would pass the color contrast. Is it possible to consider this as failure if it is barely readable with black and white or color blinded people?
 
Example
Inline image 1
 
 
 
Best,
Duc Ta


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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Elizabeth J. Pyatt
In reply to this post by Andrew Kirkpatrick-2
So what were the original color values for the reds?

I’m trying to understand how the contrast algorithm is effected when the example becomes black and white.
If it’s a luminosity scale (i.e. values only are measured), then theoretically shifting or removing the hue should not matter. If it does, there is an issue that needs to be investigated.

Hope this makes sense.

Best
Elizabeth


> On Aug 16, 2016, at 3:06 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 13:53
> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]>
> Cc: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Color contrast (Minimum)
>
> The actual color is dark red background and the text is red. However, when I check black and white mode, it turns out to be that so i am not sure whether I should consider it as a failure or I will say it is decent and move on.
>
>
> Best,
> Duc Ta

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer
Teaching and Learning with Technology
Penn State University
[hidden email], (814) 865-0805 or (814) 865-2030 (Main Office)

3A Shields Building
University Park, PA 16802
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
http://tlt.psu.edu


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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Felix Miata-2
In reply to this post by Phill Jenkins
Phill Jenkins composed on 2016-08-16 14:01 (UTC-0500):

> 1.4.3 Contrast (Minimum): The visual presentation of text and images of
> text has a contrast ratio of at least 4.5:1, except for the following:
> . . . Incidental: Text or images of text that are part of an inactive user
> interface component, . . .

> Some accessibility professionals are recommending a 3:1 ratio as a best
> practice for inactive elements.

I'm curious where the 4.5 and 3.0 originated. Are they for people with 90th
percentile vision? They can't be for those at 20th. Why is the threshhold for
acceptability so bloody low? People with overbright displays can adjust them
down. Those with underbright cannot adjust beyond 100%. The expansion of gray
text on the net over recent years is a terrible scourge. Stylists are
accepting that meeting this low minimum means good enough. It isn't. It means
unnecessary eyestrain or worse for too many.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Andrew Kirkpatrick-2
In reply to this post by Elizabeth J. Pyatt
If the author provides the image with grey on red and the contrast is sufficient and the end user changes the display so that the brightness is too dim to tell some colors apart or selects an option that makes everything greyscale the contrast algorithm is unaffected.

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Standards and Accessibility
Adobe

[hidden email]
http://twitter.com/awkawk







On 8/16/16, 15:20, "Elizabeth Pyatt" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>So what were the original color values for the reds?
>
>I’m trying to understand how the contrast algorithm is effected when the example becomes black and white.
>If it’s a luminosity scale (i.e. values only are measured), then theoretically shifting or removing the hue should not matter. If it does, there is an issue that needs to be investigated.
>
>Hope this makes sense.
>
>Best
>Elizabeth
>
>
>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 3:06 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> From: "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 13:53
>> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: Color contrast (Minimum)
>>
>> The actual color is dark red background and the text is red. However, when I check black and white mode, it turns out to be that so i am not sure whether I should consider it as a failure or I will say it is decent and move on.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Duc Ta
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
>Instructional Designer
>Teaching and Learning with Technology
>Penn State University
>[hidden email], (814) 865-0805 or (814) 865-2030 (Main Office)
>
>3A Shields Building
>University Park, PA 16802
>http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
>http://tlt.psu.edu
>
>
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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Ta, Duc
In reply to this post by Elizabeth J. Pyatt
The color code for it is #CC0000 which clear indicates the contrast ratio is 3.6 : 1. My question is if a person only see black and white which is the applied effect then does the text considered to be a failure or we can say it pass. Or may be I overthink the issue here. 


Regards,
Duc Ta

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:20 PM, Elizabeth Pyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:
So what were the original color values for the reds?

I’m trying to understand how the contrast algorithm is effected when the example becomes black and white.
If it’s a luminosity scale (i.e. values only are measured), then theoretically shifting or removing the hue should not matter. If it does, there is an issue that needs to be investigated.

Hope this makes sense.

Best
Elizabeth


> On Aug 16, 2016, at 3:06 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 13:53
> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]>
> Cc: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Color contrast (Minimum)
>
> The actual color is dark red background and the text is red. However, when I check black and white mode, it turns out to be that so i am not sure whether I should consider it as a failure or I will say it is decent and move on.
>
>
> Best,
> Duc Ta

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer
Teaching and Learning with Technology
Penn State University
[hidden email], <a href="tel:%28814%29%20865-0805" value="+18148650805">(814) 865-0805 or <a href="tel:%28814%29%20865-2030" value="+18148652030">(814) 865-2030 (Main Office)

3A Shields Building
University Park, PA 16802
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
http://tlt.psu.edu




--

--------------------------------

Duc Ta

IT Consultant

Tel:   (323) 412-4894

www.dtaconsulting.org

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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Ta, Duc
Here is the picture of 

Inline image 1


But when applied black and white (greyscale) effect:

Inline image 2



Sorry for any confusion here. 



On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Ta, Duc <[hidden email]> wrote:
The color code for it is #CC0000 which clear indicates the contrast ratio is 3.6 : 1. My question is if a person only see black and white which is the applied effect then does the text considered to be a failure or we can say it pass. Or may be I overthink the issue here. 


Regards,
Duc Ta

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:20 PM, Elizabeth Pyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:
So what were the original color values for the reds?

I’m trying to understand how the contrast algorithm is effected when the example becomes black and white.
If it’s a luminosity scale (i.e. values only are measured), then theoretically shifting or removing the hue should not matter. If it does, there is an issue that needs to be investigated.

Hope this makes sense.

Best
Elizabeth


> On Aug 16, 2016, at 3:06 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 13:53
> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]>
> Cc: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Color contrast (Minimum)
>
> The actual color is dark red background and the text is red. However, when I check black and white mode, it turns out to be that so i am not sure whether I should consider it as a failure or I will say it is decent and move on.
>
>
> Best,
> Duc Ta

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer
Teaching and Learning with Technology
Penn State University
[hidden email], <a href="tel:%28814%29%20865-0805" value="+18148650805" target="_blank">(814) 865-0805 or <a href="tel:%28814%29%20865-2030" value="+18148652030" target="_blank">(814) 865-2030 (Main Office)

3A Shields Building
University Park, PA 16802
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
http://tlt.psu.edu




--

--------------------------------

Duc Ta

IT Consultant

Tel:   (<a href="tel:323%29%20412-4894" value="+13234124894" target="_blank">323) 412-4894

www.dtaconsulting.org




--

--------------------------------

Duc Ta

IT Consultant

Tel:   (323) 412-4894

www.dtaconsulting.org

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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Wayne Dick-3
In reply to this post by Elizabeth J. Pyatt
Whether this is an image or not it's 1.41:1. Fail it.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Elizabeth Pyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:
So what were the original color values for the reds?

I’m trying to understand how the contrast algorithm is effected when the example becomes black and white.
If it’s a luminosity scale (i.e. values only are measured), then theoretically shifting or removing the hue should not matter. If it does, there is an issue that needs to be investigated.

Hope this makes sense.

Best
Elizabeth


> On Aug 16, 2016, at 3:06 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 13:53
> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]>
> Cc: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Color contrast (Minimum)
>
> The actual color is dark red background and the text is red. However, when I check black and white mode, it turns out to be that so i am not sure whether I should consider it as a failure or I will say it is decent and move on.
>
>
> Best,
> Duc Ta

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer
Teaching and Learning with Technology
Penn State University
[hidden email], <a href="tel:%28814%29%20865-0805" value="+18148650805">(814) 865-0805 or <a href="tel:%28814%29%20865-2030" value="+18148652030">(814) 865-2030 (Main Office)

3A Shields Building
University Park, PA 16802
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
http://tlt.psu.edu



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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Olaf Drümmer
Using Color Contrast Analyzer, I get this:

Foreground: #CA0814 - Background: #000000

The contrast ratio is: 3.6:1

Text failed at level AA
Text failed at level AAA
Large text passed at level AA
Large text failed at level AAA

1.4.3 Contrast (Minimum):  Text (and images of text) have a contrast ratio of at least 4.5:1, except if the text is pure decoration.  Larger scale text (at least 18 point or 14 point bold) or images of text can have a contrast ratio of 3:1. (Level AA)

1.4.6 Contrast (Enhanced): Text (and images of text) have a contrast ratio of at least 7:1, except if the text is pure decoration.  Larger scale text (at least 18 point or 14 point bold) or images of text can have a contrast ratio of 4.5:1. (Level AAA)

Note: Fonts that are extraordinarily thin or decorative are harder to read at lower contrast levels.

Unfortunately, while passing AA for large text, even the black on red is difficult to see for a person like me (without noteworthy vision problems).

That much said: the conversion to grayscale (using Adobe Photoshop) gives me:


which by far does not look as bad as what has been shared initially (for me it’s actually kind of OK to read).

If I use “use grayscale” in Mac accessibility settings, I get a slightly less rich in contrast version. If I activate “increase contrast” on top, I get almost the same as the original example (but still not as dark).

Important: Exercises like this are not really ‘exact science’, as there are too many uncontrolled variables.

All in all I think it is fair to say “your mileage may vary”, and as Andrew pointed out: per the contrast formula used by WCAG 2, the contrast is just fine for large text (for  AA).



Olaf



On 16.08.2016, at 21:42, Wayne Dick <[hidden email]> wrote:

Whether this is an image or not it's 1.41:1. Fail it.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Elizabeth Pyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:
So what were the original color values for the reds?

I’m trying to understand how the contrast algorithm is effected when the example becomes black and white.
If it’s a luminosity scale (i.e. values only are measured), then theoretically shifting or removing the hue should not matter. If it does, there is an issue that needs to be investigated.

Hope this makes sense.

Best
Elizabeth


> On Aug 16, 2016, at 3:06 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 13:53
> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]>
> Cc: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Color contrast (Minimum)
>
> The actual color is dark red background and the text is red. However, when I check black and white mode, it turns out to be that so i am not sure whether I should consider it as a failure or I will say it is decent and move on.
>
>
> Best,
> Duc Ta

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer
Teaching and Learning with Technology
Penn State University
[hidden email], <a href="tel:%28814%29%20865-0805" value="+18148650805" class="">(814) 865-0805 or <a href="tel:%28814%29%20865-2030" value="+18148652030" class="">(814) 865-2030 (Main Office)

3A Shields Building
University Park, PA 16802
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
http://tlt.psu.edu




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Re: Color contrast (Minimum)

Elizabeth J. Pyatt
In reply to this post by Ta, Duc
From Photoshop, the colors I extracted were

#000000 (Black)
#cc0000 (red)

The contrast is 3:6:1, so is technically a pass for large text at level AA…but I don’t like it either.

In Photoshop, I then used the Hue/Saturation filter to make a grayscale version and the red became gray #666666, which is 3.7:1 and also passes for large text.  See attached below:


I would say that people need to watch which filters they use. But also skirting the bare minimum isn’t always working.

My two cents.
Elizabeth

P.S. On a side note - red/black should be avoided in any case because some color blind users see red as black…so you would have black/black text for this group.



On Aug 16, 2016, at 3:42 PM, Ta, Duc <[hidden email]> wrote:

Here is the picture of 

<image.png>


But when applied black and white (greyscale) effect:

<image.png>



Sorry for any confusion here. 



On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Ta, Duc <[hidden email]> wrote:
The color code for it is #CC0000 which clear indicates the contrast ratio is 3.6 : 1. My question is if a person only see black and white which is the applied effect then does the text considered to be a failure or we can say it pass. Or may be I overthink the issue here. 


Regards,
Duc Ta

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 3:20 PM, Elizabeth Pyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:
So what were the original color values for the reds?

I’m trying to understand how the contrast algorithm is effected when the example becomes black and white.
If it’s a luminosity scale (i.e. values only are measured), then theoretically shifting or removing the hue should not matter. If it does, there is an issue that needs to be investigated.

Hope this makes sense.

Best
Elizabeth


> On Aug 16, 2016, at 3:06 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: "Ta, Duc" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 13:53
> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <[hidden email]>
> Cc: WAI-IG <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Color contrast (Minimum)
>
> The actual color is dark red background and the text is red. However, when I check black and white mode, it turns out to be that so i am not sure whether I should consider it as a failure or I will say it is decent and move on.
>
>
> Best,
> Duc Ta

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer
Teaching and Learning with Technology
Penn State University
[hidden email], (814) 865-0805 or (814) 865-2030 (Main Office)

3A Shields Building
University Park, PA 16802
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
http://tlt.psu.edu




-- 
--------------------------------
Duc Ta
IT Consultant
Tel:   (323) 412-4894
www.dtaconsulting.org



-- 
--------------------------------
Duc Ta
IT Consultant
Tel:   (323) 412-4894
www.dtaconsulting.org

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
Instructional Designer
Teaching and Learning with Technology
Penn State University
[hidden email], (814) 865-0805 or (814) 865-2030 (Main Office)

3A Shields Building
University Park, PA 16802
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejp10/psu
http://tlt.psu.edu

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