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3rd call: CSS2: howto disable audio?

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3rd call: CSS2: howto disable audio?

Jonathan Chetwynd

CSS2: howto disable audio?

Bert,

I've already raised this issue twice***, but not received a response.

Please could you consider how to disable audio with CSS2?
and let me know asap?

copied to cdf as possibly relevant.

cheers

~:"

Jonathan Chetwynd

***
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2007Apr/0008.html *
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2007Jul/0044.html **


**CSS & audio

How can the user disable audio?

http://www.peepo.co.uk demonstrates one way that CSS2 can be used to
enable audio on event.

the user may for instance have a screen reader and it would be
confusing to hear both.
unplugging the speaker or turning audio off are not helpful solutions.

apologies if I already raised this issue, I'm known to have a
terrible memory.

----

*CSS2: howto disable audio?

http://www.peepo.co.uk uses css to provide audio on event.

It would be convenient for some users if a button to disable audio  
were provided.
How might this be done, without using script?

please find attached a reduced testcase, and brief instructions.

cheers

Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and the Internet

use the relevant nightly build from Camino, Firefox or Opera:
(if necessary place in a temporary directory)

camino
OS X: http://www.caminobrowser.org/download/releases/nightly/

ff
OS X: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest- 
trunk/firefox-3.0a3pre.en-US.mac.dmg
Win: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest- 
trunk/firefox-3.0a3pre.en-US.win32.installer.exe

opera
OS X: http://snapshot.opera.com/mac/o920w_3659.dmg
Win: http://snapshot.opera.com/windows/o920w_8762m.exe

and install an audio plugin such as quicktime:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/

for mouse users: place the pointer over an icon, a speaker icon  
appears, move the pointer over the speaker to play the sound.

unfortunately, for keyboard users, the audio plays automatically: use  
tab or Q/A to navigate.
Is there any way I can improve on this, given that SVG is not read by  
screenreaders?

to change spoken language and text, use Camino,  and change your  
operating system language, then reboot
to change text only, use Opera in XP: tools,preferences, general,  
language...

--

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" standalone="no"?>
<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
      xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"
width="100%" height="100%"
 >
<style type="text/css" id="css"><![CDATA[
.audio {display: none}
a:hover  .audio {display: block}
a:focus  .audio {display: block}
]]></style>

<a xlink:href="http://www.peepo.co.uk/index.svg">
<rect x="5" y="5" width="255" height="25" style="fill:#aaa"/>
<text x="10" y="25" >audio on :hover or :focus</text>
<foreignObject class="audio" xlink:href="http://www.peepo.co.uk/sound/ 
en/splat.mp3">
     <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" >
         <object data="http://www.peepo.co.uk/sound/en/splat.mp3" />
        </html>
</foreignObject>
</a>

</svg>

---








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Re: 3rd call: CSS2: howto disable audio?

fantasai

~:'' ありがとうございました。 wrote:

>
> CSS2: howto disable audio?
>
> Bert,
>
> I've already raised this issue twice***, but not received a response.
>
> Please could you consider how to disable audio with CSS2?
> and let me know asap?
> ***
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2007Apr/0008.html *
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2007Jul/0044.html **
>
>
> **CSS & audio
>
> How can the user disable audio?

If the audio was triggered by aural CSS, then you could turn it off with
CSS rules, but the testcase you have attached is not using aural CSS, it's
embedding the audio file via HTML.

~fantasai

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Re: 3rd call: CSS2: howto disable audio?

Jonathan Chetwynd

fantasai,

thank you for your response, however this issue* is not directly  
related to aural CSS.

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd

*Had aural CSS been chosen, relatively few visitors would have the  
opportunity to hear sound.


On 23 Jul 2007, at 19:15, fantasai wrote:

~:'' ありがとうございました。 wrote:

> CSS2: howto disable audio?
> Bert,
> I've already raised this issue twice***, but not received a response.
> Please could you consider how to disable audio with CSS2?
> and let me know asap?
> ***
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2007Apr/0008.html *
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2007Jul/0044.html **
> **CSS & audio
> How can the user disable audio?

If the audio was triggered by aural CSS, then you could turn it off with
CSS rules, but the testcase you have attached is not using aural CSS,  
it's
embedding the audio file via HTML.

~fantasai


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Re: 3rd call: CSS2: howto disable audio?

fantasai

~:'' ありがとうございました。 wrote:
>
> fantasai,
>
> thank you for your response, however this issue* is not directly related
> to aural CSS.

My point is, you are complaining to the wrong people. If the sound is
coming from the plugin, then you need to complain to the makers of the
plugin. A plugin is arbitrary executable code: if it makes too much
noise, CSS can't do anything about that.

~fantasai

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Re: 3rd call: CSS2: howto disable audio?

Jonathan Chetwynd

Fantasai,

that's all too easy an excuse, aka passing the buck.
I do take your point, but however dont agree that it's necessarily  
only a plugin issue.

for instance it's likely the plugin - can - raise an interface that  
provides a means to disable.
However the author may chose to make this very small, off screen, or  
not visible.

it's also true that the user agent, application or browser may  
provide an audio interface.
furthermore client-side script can be used to play audio.

However as the current functioning W3C specifications are designed in  
such a way that CSS provides sound on event, which is a reasonable  
expectation; is it not a sensible expectation that there should  
equally be a way for CSS to disable or prevent audio?

for instance via a user style sheet?

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd



On 24 Jul 2007, at 06:24, fantasai wrote:

~:'' ありがとうございました。 wrote:
> fantasai,
> thank you for your response, however this issue* is not directly  
> related to aural CSS.

My point is, you are complaining to the wrong people. If the sound is
coming from the plugin, then you need to complain to the makers of the
plugin. A plugin is arbitrary executable code: if it makes too much
noise, CSS can't do anything about that.

~fantasai


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Re: 3rd call: CSS2: howto disable audio?

fantasai

~:'' ありがとうございました。 wrote:
>
> Fantasai,
>
> that's all too easy an excuse, aka passing the buck.
> I do take your point, but however dont agree that it's necessarily only
> a plugin issue.

Then show me a testcase where it's not a plugin issue.

> for instance it's likely the plugin - can - raise an interface that
> provides a means to disable.
> However the author may chose to make this very small, off screen, or not
> visible.
 >
> it's also true that the user agent, application or browser may provide
> an audio interface.
> furthermore client-side script can be used to play audio.
>
> However as the current functioning W3C specifications are designed in
> such a way that CSS provides sound on event, which is a reasonable
> expectation; is it not a sensible expectation that there should equally
> be a way for CSS to disable or prevent audio?

See, now you're saying that CSS is controlling the sound of your plugin.
This is not the case. The W3C specifications do not say whether the plugin
provides sound or does not provide sound. The W3C does not standardize
plugins. The CSS specifications talk about whether the 'play-during'
property provides sound, and you can override /that/ in a user style sheet,
but this is not relevant to the test cases you have posted here.

~fantasai

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Re: 3rd call: CSS2: howto disable audio?

Jonathan Chetwynd

fantasai,

"this is not relevant to the test cases you have posted here."

sums up the issue as well as it could.
the issue is that specifications, whilst not created irrespective of  
each other, aren't necessarily able to foresee usage.

the fact is that without some change it's possible and even likely  
that we could all receive massive amounts of unwanted audio spam on  
websites.
spam audio that it seems could be hard to control.
especially given that users may chose to disable client-side script  
for precisely this type of reason.

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd



On 24 Jul 2007, at 09:44, fantasai wrote:


~:'' ありがとうございました。 wrote:
> Fantasai,
> that's all too easy an excuse, aka passing the buck.
> I do take your point, but however dont agree that it's necessarily  
> only a plugin issue.

Then show me a testcase where it's not a plugin issue.

> for instance it's likely the plugin - can - raise an interface that  
> provides a means to disable.
> However the author may chose to make this very small, off screen,  
> or not visible.
 >
> it's also true that the user agent, application or browser may  
> provide an audio interface.
> furthermore client-side script can be used to play audio.
> However as the current functioning W3C specifications are designed  
> in such a way that CSS provides sound on event, which is a  
> reasonable expectation; is it not a sensible expectation that there  
> should equally be a way for CSS to disable or prevent audio?

See, now you're saying that CSS is controlling the sound of your plugin.
This is not the case. The W3C specifications do not say whether the  
plugin
provides sound or does not provide sound. The W3C does not standardize
plugins. The CSS specifications talk about whether the 'play-during'
property provides sound, and you can override /that/ in a user style  
sheet,
but this is not relevant to the test cases you have posted here.

~fantasai



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